How Content Impacts Startups and Stakeholders

Adam Vazquez 0:06
On this episode, we’re joined by Zécca Lehn, General Partner of Responsibly Venture which backs US startups with remarkable teams, in the Sustainability and Social Good verticals.

During our conversation, Zécca shares how he uses content to source investment opportunities, how he advises his portfolio to leverage content for growth, and what trends hes’ seeing in the space currently.

I thoroughly enjoyed getting to meet Zécca and think you’ll learn a lot from this conversation, let’s dive in with Zécca Lehn from Responsibly Ventures.

Adam Vazquez 1:00
Alright, we’re recording. Carlton, you had to see me go through that one as well. Give me a rating on the cold intro, please.

Carlton Riffel 1:06
Well, if you just take out those first two steps, I think that was like eight or nine.

Adam Vazquez 1:10
That’s not how life goes, though.

Carlton Riffel 1:12
We gotta count them all. You get a three today.

Adam Vazquez 1:18
We might need to start tracking these so people can—

Carlton Riffel 1:21
To see how you trend.

Adam Vazquez 1:22
Yeah. I think the last one you said was a seven because of some missteps, but it was one take, in fairness.

Carlton Riffel 1:28
It was one take. I guess I should have been—

Adam Vazquez 1:31
This one took three. All right, so a three and a seven. Anyway, you heard the conversation with Zécca. It was a really different conversation. He comes from a different part of the world than where a lot of our people come from, whether it be marketers or just pure content creators, he’s obviously coming at it from an investment perspective. What were your takeaways from the conversation?

Carlton Riffel 1:51
Yeah, I always love hearing VCs talk about content because they’re in this unique meeting point between business fundraising and really investing. So there’s trying to make all those things work together. And so there’s an interesting dance that kind of happens with them, trying to discover new companies, and find people with interesting ideas and doing things in the startup space, especially for early stage investors. And then you’ve got the other side of it, which is trying to provide value and guide those startups that they have invested in, to essentially make money on their behalf. So they’ve got a really interesting perspective. And I think podcasts are uniquely helpful because it’s a great way to have conversations. And I think he talks about certainly on, you’re gonna develop trust, you’re gonna develop relationships through podcasts. But I think what he kind of his is doing and a lot of people are doing right now really taking part of like these live audio sessions. So whether that’s through Twitter spaces or Clubhouse—RIP Clubhouse. It’s kind of going away lately—but just this idea of jumping in without any expectations, or maybe you have a topic, but then just seeing where it goes. So you guys talk a little about improvisation and how do you handle those live conversations in a way that adds value. It’s pretty interesting.

Adam Vazquez 3:11
Yeah, it’s something that’s challenging for me because, I’ll be honest— So improv is something I enjoy. I think doing it especially, in real life, is an art form. You’re getting energy from it. But for some reason, the social audio thing I’ve just not been able to sink my teeth into. And I think a lot of it is the perfectionism that I expect from something that I’m going to create. I mean, it took me three takes to read an intro for this episode. Inherently you don’t have that opportunity to edit or to fix when it comes to social audio. I think that’s a great thing. Like people exec are showing how you can it helps you get past that but be you can test all these ideas and see what resonates much like Twitter is too long-form blogging. I think social audio has the opportunity to be like a testing place that you can then expound upon, on longer form things like podcasts, and he’s used it both to test ideas, build an audience but also like you were saying, attract founders to him, as opposed to always having to be out on the search for new talent. So really interesting episode and I learned a lot let’s get into it with Zécca Lehn.

All right, welcome back to Content Is for Closers. On this episode, we have Zécca Lehn. Zécca, thank you so much for joining the show.

Zécca Lehn 4:34
So great to be here. Thank you. It’s gonna be fun.

Adam Vazquez 4:37
Absolutely. I’ve enjoyed following you on Twitter and just engaging a little bit with things that you’ve put out there around the impact space investing and have seen how you’ve used content in your own career. And I just thought you’d be a great guest to have so I guess maybe you could just start off there. How did you get into investing and what is impact investing to you?

Zécca Lehn 4:58
Thank you. That’s tremendous. I’m doing something right when I meet people on Twitter and we have future engagements, do shows like this. It’s just so much fun. It’s so engaged, I’d encourage everyone to get on Twitter, it’s a great way to meet people.

Adam Vazquez 5:11
Absolutely.

Zécca Lehn 5:12
My background a little bit about I got started about 20-plus years ago as an environmental economist and worked my way toward becoming a bit of a self-taught programmer or data scientist, data engineer, but worked in startups worked in Los Angeles with a company called Iris TV, in the video, recommender space for lifestyle, entertainment, news and sports. I worked a little bit in quantitative finance, a little bit in blockchain. And a few years ago, my long-term plan—just getting started out of college and as an environmental economist—my plan was to focus on sustainability and become a professional, sustainable investor, I gave myself a 20-year goal. And I said, this is what I’m going to do. I actually thought I was going to start an ESG hedge fund of all things, which was kind of a silly plan in retrospect, now that I’ve found my passion for startups, but I just like to lead forward with kind of what was real for me. So this world of impact really stems from a broader history around corporate social responsibility, governance, environmental mitigation, and management, negative screening from things like socially responsible investing in the world of impact is also similar to that, and that it just focuses on other forms of measurement within the same context.

Adam Vazquez 6:24
Okay, so maybe go a little bit deeper into that. So when you say other forms of measurement, as opposed to what? As opposed to just pure revenue?

Zécca Lehn 6:32
Ah, good question. Good question. So you could say that— Let’s just start with ESG. Most people know what that is today: Environmental Social Governance. The way that it got started, say, I’m gonna say maybe 10, or 12, the term started floating around about 10, 12, 15 years ago, maybe 1012 years ago. And what it originally started, as was, for institutional managers that have large portfolios of publicly traded companies, they would, they would use third party services, these ESG providers that would measure everything from the legal, the extra-legal risks of a particular company, sustainable sustainability risks, lawsuits, things like that, or even corporate governance. And these sort of scores started to develop this marketplace started to develop where vendors, usually it actually was not retail, originally, it was is more so big institutions that just wanted to kind of help de-risk their portfolio, maybe gain an edge. And back to the ESG hedge fund conversation, I don’t want to go too far in that direction. But sure, they started having these sort of extra financial measures that were used by third parties, it was not the corporations or the startups that were there reporting their “ESG,” it was really just kind of an extra-legal scoring of a particular company. And then benchmarking that I got against other industry players to say, look, no Apple is doing this. And this is product line. This is its industry, we think that it’s this much better marginally for environmental, social, or governance. And then fund managers could choose not only what is the risk profile of the finance look like? But also what does it look like from a scoring aspect. So that’s kind of the ESG. Now, the impact side of things, it’s been more traditionally something very unique to a company. So the way I look at it is if there’s a company that doesn’t really know how to benchmark against another one because there’s a lot of opacity, there’s not a lot of data, they’re doing something brand new. To me, it’s sort of an internal check, so to speak, for these companies. It’s a different thing to a lot of different people. But that’s more or less how it started develop maybe five, 10 years ago, this world of impact. And also traditionally, it aligned more so with what’s called philanthropic venture or patient capital. Sometimes even things like revenue-based financing, or let lending. green bonds could even be considered in that sort of category. And what it was was effectively a way for larger investors usually later stage to invest with their moral compass their principles, and do so by getting metrics back from these companies themselves. So you could think of it more of like a CSR reporting to the stakeholder which was the investor, CSR reports from public companies say that under the Global Reporting Initiative or something like that, that is a form of ESG. But it’s usually not traditionally seen that way. So you could also say it’s kind of a form of impact reporting as well, but it’s more so aligned with the world of sustainability in my opinion.

Adam Vazquez 9:46
Got it. I didn’t know that background on ESG so appreciate you sharing that and the history with that. I think what’s interesting about the way that you think about investing and in just little bits that I’ve read, and even in our limited engagement because of the impact side of things. Like when I asked you to come on the show, I was like, “Hey, we talk about content” and you said, “Oh, so interesting. I’d love to talk about the impact content has.” I just think it’s an interesting way to frame that. It’s not just how does content drive revenue? How does content ______? But how does content impact the startup and its stakeholders? I’m curious, as a investor, as someone who’s been in the space, what impact have you seen content play for some of the startups that you’ve invested in?

Zécca Lehn 10:33
Well, frankly, it sounds kind of cliche, or maybe not that interesting, but being consistent with your content strategy and creating a brand around it. What it does is it builds community and it builds trust, and it builds credibility. So those less tangible things credibility and trust is baked into a consistent and strong media strategy, in my opinion. So for ourselves at responsibly ventures. So we do these VC impact roundtables. We’ve been doing about 50 of these over the last year, plus months. And each week, I bring together different state, sorry, different VCs, different angels, family offices, different founders, different authors together in one space, we just break out what is the market landscape look like? Where the players, what is the evolution of this health tech, digital health, climate tech, you name it type of I call these impact categories, or impact buckets, whatever we want to call them. And that consistency drives deal flow, it drives relationship building, we have a lot of people in our community that have connected me that with each other, they’ve become partners they’ve been, I think we had a co-founder or two, they’re met through the process of trying to remember, I’m on a lot of different pitch panels as well. And those helped as well. I do active pitch panels we do on every Tuesday night, or three-minute pitch founders come in. And a lot of those founders have met investors too, that have been participating as a co-host and panelist for about a year on that. And that consistency, what it does is just creates an environment for connections to be made for people to ideate together, a lot of people they actually share ideas there, that less tangible aspect of impact that goes along with creating a safe environment where people can collaborate in a non-immediate transactional way. I believe it creates a ton of positive impact. And I’ve seen that in real time myself.

Adam Vazquez 12:25
Yeah, the first thing that you talked about, I think that happens on Twitter spaces. Is that correct?

Zécca Lehn 12:31
Yeah, we do Twitter spaces for our weekly Friday 3:30 pm. Pacific Time to 5 pm every week. We have actually a community roundtable this Friday, but anyway. Long story short, we do those and then also on spaces, I’m part of the pitch panel pitch practice panel every week, as well. And they’re a lot of fun. And also just podcasts in general, anything that just gets the word out and getting people to know that you’re serious about what you’re building and how you’re growing. And sharing your wins and giving your asks and all these things. It really just helps build momentum. You get more followers, those followers you help pay it forward, create more momentum for them, sharing the successes, and it kind of creates a positive flywheel.

Adam Vazquez 13:10
Oh, absolutely. You’re speaking our language. How long have you been doing the the the Twitter spaces on the VC end?

Zécca Lehn 13:19
Yeah, great question. We’ve been doing them about seven, eight months. And then before that was actually on Clubhouse, and this is kind of like a sob story. But we had about 8,000 members in our three sustainable tech, social tech, and then positive Clubhouse clubs. I would host them there. Unfortunately, the numbers just kind of dropped off and it was just much better to switch over to spaces. And we can share the view really well there. But yeah, we don’t have an actual I have a positive Twitter account for positive our community. I also have an LP/GP private community, for managers who are focused on VC impact. That’s something somewhat separate. But collectively, I kind of keep this open community through these media engagements we do weekly. And I’m actually going to put together a one-day climate tech sort of VC impact conference all hosted on spaces on May 20. That’s the goal, and I need some help with that.

Adam Vazquez 14:15
Oh, great. We’ll have to link that in the show notes.

Zécca Lehn 14:18
Maybe you could be a host.

Adam Vazquez 14:20
Yeah, yeah. Would be glad to, if that’s helpful. So total about a year and a half or something. Is that about the right timeline?

Zécca Lehn 14:28
Yeah, roughly 12 months. 15 months or something like that. We’ve done I think— I guess I haven’t really tracked it all, but I think last time I tallied it was something like 50 sessions and it’s usually seven new people per week. Sometimes there are crossover people that want to return or help build the panel and things like that. So we have some great community members that really do add a lot of value.

Adam Vazquez 14:49
I absolutely love that. We talk a lot about an 18-month mindset as when you’re starting a show or when you’re starting a new content series. You Being able to commit at least 18 months without expecting anything.

Zécca Lehn 15:03
It’s so good. You’re gonna make me cry though because I’ve made it to two years with podcasts and I haven’t been able to keep up the last few months. I’m almost gonna cry.

Adam Vazquez 15:13
It’s hard. But having that marathon mindset helps you. What you just said was beautiful. We added seven people, or we have seven fresh—

Zécca Lehn 15:21
Every week, five to seven. Yeah.

Adam Vazquez 15:24
Yeah. So many people going into it have these expectations of, “Oh, I’m going to be the next Rogen” or whatever. You get disappointed and you give up after I think it’s something like 80% of shows fail by episode seven fail because they quit.

Zécca Lehn 15:44
Yeah, it’s not right. People should, like you say, at least go 18 months. I agree. It should be like the base standard. Totally agree with you.

Adam Vazquez 15:52
Yeah, it’s because that compounding success just in a year’s time, you’re 50 episodes, five people each time, those numbers add up and make such a difference to the people and the impact that you’re able to have through content. So that’s such a great perspective.

Zécca Lehn 16:09
Can I add one more thing to that?

Adam Vazquez 16:11
Yeah, I would love that.

Zécca Lehn 16:12
About the podcasts, it’s been a tremendous experience personally, to learn how to speak in a confident manner on the fly, and to just be able to come up with questions and give feedback and to be open and to learn. There’s a tremendous lesson there, in my view. To be a podcaster is to really open yourself to learning, in a way, and also to be a host. It’s the same. It’s a different dynamic when you’re doing it in under a podcast. Usually you’re researching much more you much more focused, is very confusing at times, hosting live panels, you have everything from trolls hopping in the room to people dropping off, all sorts of chaos. Guests not showing up, other people’s— I had one person say the F-word to another co-panelist and to kick them off the panel. That was fun. But the podcast thing I have to say, it can be tremendous.

I know others have said this, I’m trying to think of the gentleman’s name. Someone else has said that podcasts are great for building relationships and I’ve been saying this too for years that it’s tremendous to be able to connect with people. You have the pre-show. There’s a book I read on podcasting, I’ll try to share a link to that or something. Creating podcasts gives you almost a license to ask questions in a way that a round table usually doesn’t. And for that, I’d say that you can go way deeper. Panels and live sessions are great. You don’t get the strong relationship that you get as a podcast. Go way under the hood, ask some deep questions, and then reveal oneself. My job as a podcast host and producer is to make my guests shine, that’s kind of rule number one. And so with that, you build that trust. Some of the people I’ve had on the podcast a year and a half plus ago, they’re some of my really closest friends in the industry, I feel. We send each other random book recommendations or just like checking in and all the rest and it’s beautiful. You can’t really quantify that from the standpoint of this strong impact story, but I think it helps a lot because you differentiate yourself. And the same goes with writing articles, too. There can be a real strong strategy to that that I know a lot of people can capitalize on really well.

Adam Vazquez 18:29
People listening are going to think, and I just want to say this because— Okay, so Zécca, I don’t even know if I explained this before, but we produce podcasts. That’s what our business model is for startups and tech companies, etc. And we were talking beforehand, you were like, “I haven’t even—” People are gonna think I prompted you with that. I just want to say, that whole thing he just said, I had nothing to do with.

Zécca Lehn 18:54
There’s actually a demand for this. And I’m gonna go one step further and, in complete transparency, the last couple of I have like three four shows that I need to actually edit and do the show notes for and I’m looking at a good weekend of sitting down and doing that. I’m guilty right now. But the thing is, realistically you want to, as you probably I don’t know, can’t speak for you, but I feel that to produce really high-quality podcasts you have to do the research, maybe an hour hour and a half for the research get to know the guests as much as you can so you don’t look like a jerk as a podcast host, in my opinion. And by the way, you’re doing a great job. And then also, show notes take a good hour, hour and a half at times. Production, the editing, that takes another at least another hour or two, at least two hours, if I’d be honest, and then promotion, etc. So you’re looking at 10 hours per podcast episode for high-quality podcast in my opinion.

Adam Vazquez 19:57
Yeah, 100% agree. Sometimes when we’re having conversations, folks will say, oh, you’re exaggerating the time or the employment. And to your point, you could do it in less time. You could just get on a phone call with no preparation with all the items left in and all the beatings and find them not promote the show. And you’ll do it for 18 months and you’ll still have the same five audience members that you had when you started.

Zécca Lehn 20:26
People appreciate your quality. I’ve had this feedback so many times. People literally say, you obviously put a lot into researching. And I’m a big show notes geek, so I’m actually less proud about the podcast than I am about the show. And I tried to like give people a little mini education through my show notes kind of my, like, nerdy thing or whatever. Now, that’s a lot of fun. You’re obviously doing this for the right reasons I can tell the energy just comes through. And in frankly, I think we could—I don’t know want to hijack your show—but I feel like we could talk for an hour about just how do you get to that point where you find that thing that that is you’re both passionate about. But there’s also something in the market, people will actually want it and things like that thing, maybe if like a startup if you just took a few beats and like asked around a little bit more sort of even previewed who may be on the show, get those people recorded first couple, couple few tests, recording of where you actually produce everything, anything, at least you kind of get a sense of your flow and things like that. Again, I don’t want to take it in the wrong direction.

Adam Vazquez 21:32
No, no, no. My next question is about that, about your advice to startups who want to get involved. But I think just to touch on that, that’s where—and it’s not just consistency, it’s also volume—but that’s where being able to be in the game long enough to survive and figure out what an audience will listen to is is so helpful. I mean, just with our suite, we started this company in the show about five years ago, and I’ve had so many different iterations of it started off as a show really just highlighting different tech startups. And then it switched into a marketing show. And now it’s kind of an amalgam of multiple things. But in the meantime, we also launched a baseball show. Just trying to see what stuck and it took every bit of that three and a half, four years to find a voice, which is long but the point is that it’s 100% what you’re saying.

What would you say to someone who’s on the outside looking in, particularly a startup maybe that you would be sitting with and giving advice to when it comes to how they should think about the beginning of content creation series?

Zécca Lehn 22:45
Yeah, well, I would say if you have an idea and a passion for it, do not mitigate that and try to downplay it, because that’s, I think that’s what keeps people going through things, frankly, because there are ups and downs. If you love to write, then maybe you want to consider that as your initial… Give that six months and give it a shot and see how that goes, how you feel about it, etc. I think back to your point, though, really just looking more in the mid to long term, they 18 months, I think you’re spot on about that. So there’s, there’s got to be ways to kind of micro test that in some way. If it’s writing, for example, give yourself like a two-week goal and do a post every day and make some sort of synthesis or some sort of like figuring out what are your focus areas? First, you want to kind of like, what are the target areas you want to discuss is where are your brand guardrails so to speak. And then once you have that, and that aligns with your core values and your purpose, in my opinion, I think that’s where you can kind of test things out. And the same thing goes for audio, if podcast is someone’s cup of tea, maybe try like, so there are some platforms out there where you can do like, micro recordings, or maybe you do something like your own YouTube channel where you walk around, had this idea of walking around the block and just sharing some ideas and just test it out and see how people feel about it. It’s early feedback, maybe keep it very lean, and not too committed, per se, right off the bat just to see how you kind of feel about your setup and things like that. I’m guessing. I don’t know if that’s good advice.

Adam Vazquez 24:25
Yeah, no. Just with your experience with live audio, to be honest, that’s not something that I’ve used as much.

Zécca Lehn 24:31
It’s scary as hell.

Adam Vazquez 24:35
Okay. So is it a good place to test a theme for a longer series? Or do you think it’s something that you need to have—?

Zécca Lehn 24:42
Great question. Really great question. I’ll try to answer that as candidly as I can. I think the answer there is probably yes. So one thing— Okay, here’s a little social experiment I do sometimes. As a former environmental economist/social scientist, I put on the experimenter hat quite often. I like doing this. So one thing I do is I just open up these TLDR with a green heart room. I show up like 10 pm on a Tuesday on Twitter spaces, I don’t invite anyone else and I sit there, okay? Literally, you’re there alone, like, Hey, I’m the lonely person, the lonely VC here, whatever. And it’s amazing. Firstly, you may get someone you don’t want to talk to, and they show up, and you’re like, okay, just engage, say hi to what you share in common. It’s TLDR. So the sky’s the limit. This is one example. And the thing that I found out through doing about 10 or so of these is that the awkwardness for myself that goes along with just sitting there not knowing what will happen, you have a great icebreaker for the rest of the people because they can realize they don’t want you to feel like you’re just sitting there, most people will raise your hand just to compensate and save your butt, which is cool. And then you realize little people actually want to see you succeed. So see me succeed. And then also, like get it off of oneself a little bit more as a host. That idea’s back to improv. It’s like that first rule of improv: you never make your co-improv star look bad kind of thing. And so you just roll into it and you’re there together and you talk about whatever is fine. And then you realize, oh, well, my job as a host is to really just help this person shine and be a guest and create a safe space for them where they someone doesn’t come up and tell him to the F-word or something like that. Yeah, it’s good fun. And it’s so back to your point, I think that’s a really good way to get used to the idea of being an audio format, perhaps podcast, you can record those, they’re only good for about a month, you can tweet them out. People like the feedback. Why not? I say why not? It’s a great idea.

Adam Vazquez 26:55
That’s great. It’s something that I need to toy with more.

Zécca Lehn 26:59
Uh-oh. Watch out everyone.

Adam Vazquez 27:01
Right, I know. You’re gonna start seeing just me sitting lonely in spaces waiting for Zécca to jump in.

Zécca Lehn 27:07
That’s the funny thing, though, is some of the best spaces have actually been the most unexpected ones. We had rooms with, like 200 people, and it becomes like a big like, superstar investor comes in, boom, all of a sudden, they bring everyone that follows them. And we’re like, I had the one conversation with this founder who signed on to it kind of like it wasn’t recorded. But anyway, this big founder jumped in the room and they were out walking their dog. And I interviewed them for half an hour.

Adam Vazquez 27:35
Oh, that’s great.

Zécca Lehn 27:36
You never know.

Adam Vazquez 27:39
Yeah, yeah. The improv analogy is a great one because the thing you learn in improv is to say “yes, and…” You never want to end the scene. You never want to bring finality to the scene. And that’s such a great—

Zécca Lehn 27:54
I love it. You obviously know your improv.

Adam Vazquez 27:56
Well, yeah, a little bit. But it gives you a little bit of practice probably for really anything but just be becoming a better conversationalist and a podcast host and all those things. So it’s something I need to toy with, for sure.

Zécca Lehn 28:09
I’ll take this one step further and say that as an investor, as a VC, someone who’s never raised venture capital, for someone who’s never started a venture back startup, I had to learn how to listen as an angel investor, then as a scout, and now as a VC, to listen, be present, go in with an open mind. And I think everyone can benefit from that, regardless of what one’s background and story is. I think it’s always really great to say more “yes, and’s.”

Adam Vazquez 28:42
Yes. Yep. Absolutely. Well, so you have though, built your career as a VC you have continued to work with all these different startups. What are you seeing—be it a content tactic or execution or trend—what are you seeing right now that just has you excited?

Zécca Lehn 29:02
First thing that popped in my mind was this company we back called climatize.earth. Will and Alba, both co-founders, they’re very focused on content themselves, more so than most founders are. They’re utilizing TikTok and Twitter and just really building an engaged audience there. And I think if anyone can do it, they could do it, they’re kind of more on the Gen Z focus set. And I think that’s a big part of social community lead or, or direct to consumer types of types of companies they’re doing it’s actually quite fascinating they have sort of like an acorn model style for a transaction where your excess and your excess change and also you can invest more goes toward renewable energy and climate positive types of investments. So instead of just buying a car with credit when you go and swipe your card at the store, you’re actually putting your money towards your financial future at the same time. They try to educate people about climate change and renewable energy and climate, climate tech, things like that. They just make it fun, informative, engaging. I love that whole thing they’re doing.

Adam Vazquez 30:06
Yeah, I’m looking here and I just signed up for their waitlist. But like you said, it’s one of the few startups that really seems to promote, like, right on their homepage in multiple places, they have the TikTok link, the Twitter, Instagram, etc. A YouTube, and I love that I love the way it— Occasionally get some backlash on, oh, TikTok is for people who are too young, they don’t have money anyway. And when you see people who are creating like this and just get it, it just is so validating.

Zécca Lehn 30:38
Yeah, I’m excited about what they’re building for sure. That’s great.

Adam Vazquez 30:43
Well, Zeca, thank you so much for spending time with us and giving us your perspective. I think anyone who’s listening, any founder certainly should continue to follow you and to learn from your spaces. What what’s the best way for people to connect with you, once they’ve heard the show?

Zécca Lehn 30:58
Well, maybe they can connect with us on Twitter @Zécca_Lehn. And Adam, I love your content. I love what you’re doing here and I really appreciate you having me here today. We’re also at responsibly.vc or ResponsiblyVC on Twitter and just always open to support founders, especially us founders raising venture capital. That’s really the aim: sustainability, social good focused.

Adam Vazquez 31:23
Awesome. Well, we will link all of that in the show notes below. And hopefully see you in a space or some other live pod app very soon.

Zécca Lehn 31:32
Love it.

Carlton Riffel 31:33
And that’s a wrap. Thank you for listening to this episode of Content Is for Closers. We hope you find this show really helpful as you grow your business with content. Maybe you know of other people who would find this show helpful as well. How about you send them our way? If you didn’t like this show and you want to tell us that, then you can head over to contentisforclosers.com where you can send us a message, give us some feedback, ask questions, or find detailed notes for every episode. Until next time, keep creating and keep closing.