If your mind has ever been boggled by how some videos go viral while yours dawdle along, this episode breaks down the five-step recipe you’re missing. From stories to strategy, Adam and Carlton share what you need to know to improve the quality of your content.
Highlights from the conversation:
Watch the short here.
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Transcription generated by Otter.ai
Adam Vazquez 0:06
Doing it poetically that way— I get it. Poems are dumb. You know, haha, but I’m just saying that writing it that way is going to help you especially as you’re delivering it if you’re like me in a way that has a rhythm to it as opposed to maybe stumbling or trying to cut it together in the background.
Carlton Riffel 0:25
Just for the record, I don’t think poems are dumb.
Adam Vazquez 0:28
You were the one rolling your eyes at me.
Put that content down. Content. The close is over. What’s your name? Content. That’s my name. You know why, mister? Because you drove a Hyundai to get here tonight. I drove an $80,000 BMW. That’s my name. Content Is for Closers.
Adam Vazquez 0:54
Welcome back to Content Is for Closers. Another Friday episode just with your boys going solo. No guest today. I’m way out of camera here. We use this for video. Carlton, how’s it going?
Carlton Riffel 1:07
It’s going good, man. I’m just waiting for you to upgrade your setup, like we talked about.
Adam Vazquez 1:13
I completely forgot about that.
Carlton Riffel 1:15
You haven’t done that yet. I was talking to Derek this morning about I give him a hard time about not having an external monitor. And I give you a hard time about the webcam thing. But it’s okay. You can give me a hard time about how much junk is in the background of my video.
Adam Vazquez 1:17
No, nobody cares about that. Yeah, it’s something I need to work on. It’s something I’m going to do this quarter for sure. It’s been a sprint to the end of third quarter, I gotta say, I don’t know how this is for everybody else. For our business. The first quarter is a sprint, like a dead sprint, everybody’s trying to get things going. Second quarter is sort of then reacting to the stuff that got turned up in the first quarter. So there’s just random projects that are we’re trying to wrap up or things we’re trying to get in for summer. And then third quarter is weird. Because the first two months of it, it’s like pulling teeth to get clients to do things or just to get movement on anything. And then you hit maybe a couple of weeks before Labor Day, probably when people’s kids are going back to school. And it’s like they wake up and realize, oh, no, I have to do things we have to get things done. I can’t wait chapter for q4. So September was just a dead sprint. October is gonna be crazy. And there’s a lot going on every single week. But there’s some Christmas in the air you got some fall candles going some Yeah, some like good foods coming in now for the fall weather. So I’m enjoying it. I’m looking forward to it.
Carlton Riffel 2:54
That would make a good video in and of itself, just explaining why do these cycles any work happen? Because I know, part of it’s like the vacation thing and that the summer vibes, people are taking off, so that’s part of it. But I think there’s also something to be said, for people that realize like, Oh, if we don’t start this project now, we’re not going to have this done by the end of the year. Yeah. And I’m gonna regret not having and I think it’s that momentum that probably carries you into the first or the end of the beginning sprint.
Adam Vazquez 3:27
Yeah, totally. It’s that, or there’s people like us that are— We take those breaks as well but we’re small enough and young enough to where— We don’t just close for several months, which it feels like some people do. So we’re still kind of chasing the ball a little bit and yeah, it’s just a weird thing. But what’s your go-to? Like? I feel like people either have Alright, there’s let’s just stereotype for a minute. There’s you can either be like a pumpkin spice latte, tall, basic white girl, I guess is the description, so like tall boots with a vest. That’s one type of fall person. Other people are more like fire, whatever. Bonfire some people are just looking forward to football. What’s your fall highlight that you look forward to?
Carlton Riffel 4:16
So you just basically asked me like, Are you a guy or girl?
Adam Vazquez 4:21
No, I’m just painting several different pictures.
Carlton Riffel 4:24
Yeah, we went for it on that. You know it’s not sports. It’s more you’re cleaning up the woods chopping things up and burn and stuff. Georgia just lifted their burn. They have a burn ban during the summer. You can’t just have it open burn. stuff doesn’t catch on fire. Yeah. So October 1 is when you can burn it floods fires again. So we’ve got land and it’s due to get cleaned out. We’ve got this huge pile that’s been sitting there for a year now. You let just drying itself out.
Adam Vazquez 4:57
That’s a long time.
Carlton Riffel 4:58
Yeah, this weekend we’ll get this nice big bonfire going.
Adam Vazquez 5:02
I think you know this, but I grew up— From sixth grade to 12th grade, I lived in a very heavily wooded area. And so our every Saturday just went without saying live, especially in the fall. And in some of the winter, it was like, Get up, go outside, start picking up sticks. I mean, it’s just what we do and then we burn, so little Fletch, I’m going to be able to commiserate with him down the road.
Carlton Riffel 5:26
Yeah, you can hear him right now. He’s just being very vocal about affirming your— No, actually he can’t hear you. You can only hear Him. So I guess I’m curious, for you, is this like a sports thing that the fall represents? Or what is your go-to thing in the fall?
Adam Vazquez 5:45
Fall is my favorite time of year in general. I mean, I love summer, big time. But then October is probably my safe favorite. Summer is my favorite season, October is my favorite month. So we’re about to hit. I mean, we are in my favorite months, it’s my birthday this month, we the Eagles are in full season, the Phillies are wrapping up, they’re actually gonna be the playoffs for the first time in over a decade, Sixers are starting, it’s just crisp weather, there’s just there’s nothing to not like about October.
So yeah, super excited about that. And super excited about something we’ve sort of happened on within our business, we’re talking a little bit about our business, and that is this viral recipe. So if you’ve been following the show for a little bit, we’ve been talking a lot on these Friday episodes kind of about our own growth, our own process, the things that we’re working on without within our business, and within our show. And one of them that we’ve identified over the past couple of weeks has been the need for better self-promotion, most of what we’ve done is for other people, which is obviously great, that’s our business, that’s what pays the bills. But for future growth, we both need to promote ourselves, our business and our show. And so we’ve been testing all kinds of different things, we are continuing to run those tests and experiments, and one of them that I wanted to dig into a little bit is this viral recipe that you put together, that I’m really excited about. If you go to our YouTube page right now, our first intentional asset following the recipe is on there right now is a short, it’s about Steve Jobs. But yeah, I thought we could talk a little bit about both what the recipe is intended to do, and then how you execute the recipe. But maybe you can give some context, Carlton, as to how you came up with this.
Carlton Riffel 7:31
Yeah, so let’s like step way back. If you go to kind of the initial starting point for social media and for content, a lot of people, we do really far back content, we’ll just go back to the social media era, when a lot of businesses started realizing the value of like publishing content and showing that they had a heartbeat, there was this like relational aspect to it, where it was like, you follow me and what I’m doing, and you kind of get to know what we’re all about. And so we’re showing you some of the behind-the-scenes stuff, we’re showing you some of the everyday things, and that was good, but it was more like, Oh, I’m getting this idea because I chose to follow you and I’m seeing you my feed, that I know that you’re alive and that your real business, right. And then I think got to the point where there was enough people doing that there was just so much noise, that it was like, you’ve got to now bring some good content or some good information. And so more people started having podcasts or interviews or different things that you repurpose, and it was like, oh, that’s, that’s interesting. Like, that’s helpful. So a quote card was sufficient. Like, somebody would read it, they’d see that interesting quote, and it was good because there wasn’t a ton of that online. So you could share it, and you can kind of there was a, like a social value to it. And then I think there’s so much of that now that there’s another level of now you have to not only be informational, you have to also entertain, like there has to be this aspect of bringing a little bit more to the table, because you have audio, you have video, you have things that are filling your entire screen at one time. So like you can have some of these social platforms have really chose to push vertical video, we’ve set it up a bunch of times, algorithmically. And so now we’re kind of asking ourselves, Well, how to how do you play into the algorithm, and really, the, there are several indicators that each platform is going to look at. But the reason that they’ve gone to social video is because it fills up your entire screen, and you have to make a decision on that current video. So it gives them a lot of data on what’s happening. So we’ve said this with TikTok before you don’t even have to like subscribe to any channels, they’re just gonna show you a video. And so same thing with reels in the Explorer thing. When you click that they’re just going to show you a video. And so they’re gonna kind of base that off of who you follow or different things that you’ve looked at before. But once you do that, when once you tell them kind of starts to curate your feed. So if you swipe away, you’re telling them, Hey, I don’t want to see that video. And the faster you do that, the stronger of an indicator it is.
Adam Vazquez 10:08
So that we’ve gotten to the point now where you don’t have to take manual steps, which is actually great for user experience, to say, “I want to follow this” or “I won’t.” I mean, you can, but to your point, the platforms themselves are smart enough to just recognize what you’re doing and then feed you more of that.
Carlton Riffel 10:27
Yeah, for better or worse. So we’ve talked a little bit before, but the idea is, we’ve kind of reverse engineered it and said, If we’re going to try to get some views algorithmically, then what does that look like? So we kind of identified different pieces of it. So really, the biggest thing is what’s going to hook their attention right away? What’s the thing that’s really going to capture someone that just happens to see your video? So before kind of the context was, like, you’ve got your customer and your you have them in mind? And you have to think about like, like, how can you solve their problem, and it’s a little bit more of a long-form play, we’re kind of acknowledging that this is going to be really fast and short form. That’s kind of the first aspect of it.
Adam Vazquez 11:09
Yeah, and I think the last thing I would just say, in terms of framing this is, it just signifies the absolute nail in the coffin change of what social media once was, which you mentioned, which was, “I know you and we’re not connecting, as we would in person, but online,” to now a wholesale replacement for traditional media. And I just think that’s an important note for someone who’s listening, because so many businesses, and a lot of the ones that we work with when we first get started, are still thinking of it as model one, we have fans, we have these people who know us offline or whatever. And now we’re gonna invite them to like us and engage with us online. That’s a very small part of it that still exists. But even if they like your thing, they may not see you’re saying if you’re not following some of these rules that the algorithms dictate.
So you framed up— I think there are two parts to this. There is the actual cycle of morality, I think that that we should go through, like, essentially what that looks like from a user standpoint, and then there’s a process that you can follow that we’re testing and using right now, in order to engage in that cycle of morality. So maybe we could start with I think the first thing you have is “hook them in the eye,” which I really like as an initial step.
Carlton Riffel 12:32
Yeah. So I mean, that first one, like I said, that’s super important. And sometimes this is the part that we’re testing a lot like, what is the thing that’s going to actually do that? What is it the line that you’re going to deliver? That’s going to pique their curiosity? And I mean, we’ve seen this different, different places, we’ve talked about a little bit here before, but you see this a lot with YouTube, like you go there. And you just see thumbnails that are kind of like, doing whatever it takes to get your attention. Give us some examples, aside from the ridiculous but give us some examples of good practice when it comes to this. Yeah, so I think that the word I said curiosity is the main thing, like what’s going to make someone really curious about that. So just to give an example of our of this first one, we were we’re trying out— our copywriter, Tristen and I were going back and forth on some, some different hooks and different ways of thinking about it. And we were kind of struggling. And so we went to add him. And he’s like, Well, what about this way, and he just completely changed the script, so that you’re kind of placing the emphasis on this hinge point of the entire industry, you’re kind of raising the stakes. So I think that was like a version of an interesting way of doing it, where you’re basically in that first line, you’re kind of showing the stakes of this, like, what if there is a $11 billion industry that Apple didn’t monetize at all? Or failed to monetize. And so that piques people’s curiosity. I think another thing is like giving numbers like that will help that kind of give, give someone or kind of a curious, start to Okay, how did this person manage that? Or how did they do that? asking your question, I think is another good way. Showing somebody’s face is an incredible way to do that just by having a close-up or having we are used to engaging with faces. And then I think there’s another thing to be said, with just some showing something that’s recognizable that everyone understands.
Adam Vazquez 14:34
Yeah, it’s I think those are the four that I would I would say, as well. And especially with the specificity of numbers or the prompt of a question. There’s that there’s a reaction that has to happen, you’re forcing a reaction, and they may not like it what you’re saying or they might not be interested in it, and then they move on and that’s fine, but at least you’re forcing that reaction as opposed to just being middle of the road white noise Same thing with the face or the celebrity or recognizable character. Again, you’re prompting a reaction when you see a face that is featured in a thumbnail or an asset like that you can’t your eye is just drawn to it just the way that human nature works. And so again, you may choose I don’t want to see that face. And so you don’t look at it. But you’re, that’s probably our problem. We need to get some other faces on there besides mine. But so yeah, that’s kind of the initial hook. And then once you’ve prompted them, they’re gonna watch your video, what’s the next goal from there?
Carlton Riffel 15:33
Yeah, so really, your goal is to not get them to swipe away. So say they watch for three seconds, and you’ve kind of hook their interest, then what’s that thing that’s going to keep them watching throughout the video. So I think everyone would say, yes, you need good content. But if you can kind of take that hook and then develop it, you’re looking at creating this rhythm. And that rhythm is kind of, we’ve kind of looked at it a couple of different ways. But one way is using special effects or animation or something that changes in the video, that kind of keeps us beat. So that might be your camera angle, it might be the way that the lightest position or what you’re showing, or if you’re using an animation, style it and then changing the animation or even mixing the two or you have a face and the animation. And then odd like audibly because these have audio to your thinking, not just about music that has a beat, but like sound effects or things that kind of triggered that response of like, I see a connection between what I’m hearing and what I’m seeing.
Adam Vazquez 16:33
Yeah, and this is one that keeping the beat keeping the rhythm is one that makes so much sense when you consider where tick tock tick tock came from, like it was a music app, I think it was called musically, and initially a trance is transitioned into TikTok. And which TikTok is what started all of this, right? I mean, everybody else is just copying them. But initially, you were trying to create a song, essentially, and people would either create the song by like just mouthing an existing song or by cutting up other speaking like, I remember when I was at Vayner, when musically first came out, and Gary pushed it hard, and began making his own musically, clips of him giving speeches that they would cut up so that it had rhythms so that it had a beat. If you think of it that way, as you’re creating these types of videos, that you’re almost writing a song or trying to write a rhythm or a rap, you’re not. But that helps keep the listener the viewer engaged, they just can’t help it because there is a rhythm that they’re kind of like in tune with.
Carlton Riffel 17:34
Yeah, and this is just like a free little bonus thing that I it took me a long time to understand growing up, but I’m sure there are people that it’s kind of a no-brainer thing, but I’ll mention anyways, is we find certain things interesting, visually, right. And like, there are certain things that have contrast or have, like, I could go through the whole art side of it. But there’s pretty much that exact same thing that’s on the auditory side. So when you think about the way that like, it’s like, there are certain sounds that are more pleasing than others. And there are certain ways that you can mix those where, where it’s aesthetically very interesting. And so I think it’s like, people may think, oh, I need to put like a song behind it. Well, that’s not necessarily the same thing. Like, like, yes, a song could be interesting. And I’ve seen people use that super effectively, right? With some of the short form things. But don’t think about that as like, like this has to be that way, it can be the same idea of like audio, that is just interesting. So first of all, I’d say if you’re creating content, having good quality audio is really, really important. Because if people hear this, and it’s like muffled and they’re hearing your hand noise on your camera, or on the phone that you’re using, and that’s gonna turn people off right away. So having great audio is a lot of times, just as or more important than having a good picture. And then I’d say the second thing is like, there are a lot of things that can keep the beat. So like the way that you emphasize words, the way that you tell a story, the way that you repeat things like that, all of those things can kind of help keep that momentum moving, especially if you’re kind of using those select cuts. So those are the first few things first, is just getting their attention and then keeping it throughout the video by kind of having this like rhythmic. Of course, there are good interesting topics that you’re kind of using to keep their interest as well. But you’re doing that in a way that kind of has this paste beat to it.
Adam Vazquez 19:38
Yeah, and just a practical thing. If you haven’t done this before, it’s gonna seem silly. It’s gonna seem I can just hear you rolling your eyes listener. And so put them back, relax. But this is what you thought. Yeah. That’s terrible. That’s not what I would do. And what I’ve done is write out the script of the video in these rhythmic beats. And so your script might only be five words long. And then you write something then you include some spaces and then you do seven words and you come back to five words and, like, doing it poetically that way. I get it. Poems are dumb. You know, haha. But I’m just saying that writing it that way is going to help you especially as you’re delivering it, if you’re like me, in a way that has a rhythm to it, as opposed to maybe stumbling or trying to cut it together in the background.
Carlton Riffel 20:32
Just for the record. I don’t think poems are dumb.
Adam Vazquez 20:35
You were the one rolling your eyes at me.
Carlton Riffel 20:37
No, no, it’s funny, because I think as a kid, like, I didn’t understand poetry, I thought like, this doesn’t make sense. Like, why are we making things rhyme? Like, this just has no reason to it. And then I understood it later. As like, this is actually like the words are somewhat meaningless. This is all about the rhythm and the sound of the language. Yeah, and kind of after that the meaning.
Adam Vazquez 21:02
You’re telling me the kid who you’re trying to tell me on this podcast that the kid who made his classmates pimples kiss—or something like this—hat guy did not appreciate poetry?
Carlton Riffel 21:16
Yeah, imagine that.
Adam Vazquez 21:17
That’s a shocker to me. Okay, so we get them on the beat. And then the next thing is that you need to get them to potentially watch it again, or at least want to listen to it again.
Carlton Riffel 21:27
So the next indicator, because we’re thinking about reverse engineering this, right? So if I’ve got them to watch to the end, what’s the next best thing, the next best thing is, if I can get them to watch it again, that will be amazing. So I think this is where you can do some interesting things like this is like we’re on that line of sketchy, like a little bit sketchy. I’ve seen some recently, where it just has tax, it’s like, Did you see that? Or this took me four times to see it. And there really is nothing there. And I basically do that just so I’m like, Well, I’ve got to find that thing. Like, what is that thing?
Adam Vazquez 21:58
Another example of this is I guess on Twitter, I’ve noticed this, I didn’t know this was a thing. But people will mark images as gruesome or explicit. Have you seen that? And then nothing at all. And then everyone in the replies is like, why is this marked this way? It creates this instant kind of viral sensation because it doesn’t compute like that. So it’s that type of thing.
Carlton Riffel 22:22
So if you see any images like that on a Twitter, then you know…
Adam Vazquez 22:27
Yeah, I mean, I don’t know. I shouldn’t— Disclaimer. Probably most of them are explicit. But yeah. I think it’s a little trick some people do. Sorry to interrupt there.
Carlton Riffel 22:38
Yeah, no, it’s the same idea, though. It’s not like we want to be inauthentic about it. But I think there are things that you can ask at the end of your video, or are there are times where maybe you can make a point in a certain way that kind of piques that curiosity, or doesn’t give it all away. And then at the end you’re kind of referencing that first part or part of that story that maybe was a little bit fast, so that someone wants to go back and look at it. But it’s interesting to just observe, like, you’re probably noticing, compared to the style of this podcast versus style, that video, every single thing has to be pretty highly calculated. Because, yeah, it’s so short. And it’s going to be shown to someone who has no context. Whereas this conversation, and listen to us. So we can kind of talk about things a little bit more loosely, and kind of ramble a little bit or tell stories because of that. So they both have their value. But in the short form video, you really have to be very, very creative and just cut all the junk out so that you can, as quickly as possible, (1) capture their attention, (2) get them to the end, (3) hopefully get them watching again, and then the fourth thing is, can you get a reaction? So whether that’s a like or a comment, anything to get them to engage will feed is gonna say and indicate to the algorithm that this was valuable, or that this should be shown to other people as well.
Adam Vazquez 24:04
Yeah, just on the concise the point about being concise. I think this has been such a valuable exercise for me going through this content process to see just how much like you said, you have to get rid of the junk. But in reality, like that’s the first step. And then the second step is, what’s the good meat that you think is valuable that you still have to cut out? Because it’s just it, it has to be so tight, and we edit for YouTube shorts first, which is has a limit of 60 seconds. And the reason we do that is because other platforms along allow longer lengths, but if we can get our message conveyed in that 60 seconds, for YouTube short, it’s going to make the other content better, even if it’s on a platform that would allow a longer duration for an asset. So really getting past even thinking of just like the normal editing of verbal clutter. or mistakes or pauses and getting to like, what are the 100 words that you have to have to convey this story? And then from there, how do you get it down to 80? And then from there— Going through that exercise is really, really powerful.
Carlton Riffel 25:17
Yeah, we had, I think it was a minute and a half for that one that we did. And then we had to cut 30 seconds out of it. And 30 seconds is a lot of dailies, just a few different things that were like, Oh, I thought that this would be essential, yes, video, but you just have to cut it.
And then I think that that last thing is, how can you get a fan. So this might be more of a play that you’re doing over a number of videos of providing consistent quality, entertaining, interesting videos that get grab people’s attention. In marketing, they say, is it seven minimum of like this idea of seven touch points, before someone will act on something. So it’s kind of the same idea, like an Instagram, like, there’s this one, I don’t know, if you’ve seen that couple that does really tight harmony on Instagram, I haven’t. But it’s like the songs that they rearrange. They’re all covers, but they just do such a good, like creative job with it. But I probably saw them like six or seven times. And it wasn’t until this last weekend, I was like, “You know what? I’m gonna follow them.” But it was a higher bar than I thought like, just because I expected that the algorithm would show, if I liked this thing, if I watched it three times, I’m sure that those throw it in front of me again. So now you’re kind of battling that algorithmic problem of like, people kind of just expect good videos to come up. But the ultimate goal would be if you can actually capture them as a follow. And so sometimes that’s making that call to action within the video. Or sometimes that’s just continually putting out quality stuff. So that somebody recognize, oh, I’ve seen this person five times that every single time I’ve enjoyed the video, so now I’m gonna follow it.
Adam Vazquez 26:52
I think it’s most of the time. It’s that second one. I mean, you get put a call to action. But so often, especially in these types of things, it takes consistency. And it takes reputation, like you said, with the individual audience member. All right, so that’s the loop. And just to recap it, it’s great, get their attention, hook them in the eye, get them to the end of that video. So keep the beat, get a replay, get a reaction and eventually get a fan. Those are kind of your five that you want to initiate or create within your audience. Now let’s quickly—
Carlton Riffel 27:24
We should call this, Adam, the “go get,” “go-getter.”
Adam Vazquez 27:28
Go get it. The “go get recipe” or something. Go get their attention, get them to the end, go get a replay, go get a reaction, go get a fan.
Let’s quickly talk about how to do this. And I don’t want to belabor this too much. But can you walk us through at least initially what the five points actually executing this are?
Carlton Riffel 27:45
Yeah, we spent a little bit less time on this. But really, it was like, if we’re going to kind of start the scripting process what that what is that going to look like? And so it looks some of the stuff that we’ve said before you can identify who the customer is who the person that is going to even care about this? And then identify why they care? Because I think that’s sometimes The harder question. And then the third one is researching the most interesting things about this topic. So this is new, trying to find, yeah, trying to find that entertaining, the facts, or the fastest that you can use to leverage in your story or in this real and then and then I think the next thing is—
Adam Vazquez 28:26
Let me just interject there. I think that it’s research most interesting facts. And or three a it’s begin to craft your narrative with how to yes notes facts, like your, what you said earlier is you all wrote that initial script about the history of podcasting. And that was true, but there were some characters who were included in the in the story factually and historically were included in the story and accompany specifically apple that was included with the story. And so the main twist that we did when we finally made the script that ended up getting published was instead of just talking about the history, the historical figures, the fact that Apple was a company who was involved, we basically told the story from Steve Jobs is prospective, or someone who’s looking over Steve’s shoulder to say these are all the things he did in around the industry. How did he miss the actual payoff of that, and that’s such a tiny tweak. But we just took the facts and then figured out the way that the scenario—
Carlton Riffel 29:30
It’s a different lens. You’re kind of just changing the lens looking at it slightly different. So then the next level would be outlining the story arc. So trying to see in that narrative is there a beginning a middle and end this idea of a climax or something that would really kind of be the focal point. And then the last thing is really just brainstorming a ton of different ways to make it appealing. So especially with that hook, you’ve got to find that way of grabbing their attention right away or else they’re not going to see the fifth second of that video.
Adam Vazquez 30:01
Yeah. Yeah. So we are working through this right now for our own content. We are using it in a few of our clients content and her seeing, I think we’ll see what happens with the numbers. But in terms of just pure quality of work, there’s just no question. It’s making the work better. It’s just making the creative better because of all the reasons that we’ve, that we’ve said to this point. And so even if it doesn’t go super sensationally viral, which it may not. I think it’s helping us become more effective creators and storytellers. So I think the process will help anyone who’s listening to hear as well. But with that has gone 30 minutes, Carlton, I hope you have a great weekend burning stuff in the woods. I’m going to be watching a ton of baseball and football this weekend. Whatever you’re doing at home. Hope you have a great weekend as well. We’ll catch you next time.