How to Take Over Podcasting

Adam Vazquez 0:06
On this episode, we’re joined by Ben Wilson, who you probably know as the producer of the extremely popular My First Million Podcast. What you may not know, is that Ben caught Shaan and Sam’s eye through his own podcast, How to Take Over the World. On this episode, Ben joins us to tell us why he started a project about world domination, how that has changed him as a person, the process he uses for creating new episodes, and of course what his experience working on the MFM pod has been like. This is one of my favorite inside-podcasting-type episodes we’ve done yet. If you want to learn how creators think and execute, this one is for you. Let’s get into it with Ben Wilson from How to Take Over the World.

Adam Vazquez 1:14
All right. All right. All right. We are back with another episode, Carlton. This was a great one with Ben Wilson. I have to ask you, have you ever met somebody who you feel like is another universe or another person that’s like you in a different region or environment?

Carlton Riffel 1:36
Yeah, man. I totally understand. There was a lot of similarities between you and Ben.

Adam Vazquez 1:42
I would say between us and Ben. I think if you take you and me and mix them together and sprinkle in some—instead of evangelicalism—you sprinkle a little Mormonism salt on top of that, from Salt Lake, then you get Ben. And that’s exactly how I felt. There are just so many similarities between the way we came up, the jobs we had previous to going into podcasting, basketball, all these different things, and talking to him and hearing his story made those come even more into the light. What did you think about the conversation with Ben?

Carlton Riffel 2:19
Well first, before we get too far into it, Adam, I need to correct you on small detail in this episode. You said that I hate Notion, which is completely false.

Adam Vazquez 2:36
You’re too proper to say “hate,” I understand, but the truth of it is if I say Notion, I get daggers from you.

Carlton Riffel 2:44
No, no. Okay, so yeah, to be fair, there was a time which I was very dismissive of Notion because they did not have a third-party API. And so that was one of my main reasons of concern because you can automate things, you can get all your stuff in there, and then there was no way to connect to the services, but now they fix that. And for all intents and purposes, we committed to using ClickUp for our business so that’s kind of where I’ve put most of my energy and focus. But, for all you Notion fans, please do not be…

Adam Vazquez 3:19
Email Carlton. In fairness, I said the reason you didn’t like Notion was because you’re too smart for that. I feel like that’s a great compliment from me. You’re focusing on the negative. But yeah, fair enough. Besides the Notion thing, what stood out to you from Ben?

Carlton Riffel 3:38
Yeah, sorry to derail that. So yeah, I think a lot of people think about content as a zero-sum game. Like, if you don’t, if you don’t have a breakout viral success, then creating content wasn’t worth it. And that’s just simply not true. And I think Ben is a good example of that. He talks about how he has had, to some degree and amazing success with his podcast, how to take over the world, but he still loves doing it. And he still does it because he enjoys the research. He enjoys the process of writing. And I think a lot of people, if you can reframe the process of content creation as one of exploration and of learning, then it’s never a zero-sum game. It, there’s always a benefit to it. And there’s always a way that you can enjoy it to some degree. And I think there are a lot of things that can be taken away from this episode, but I think that was one that was worth mentioning.

Adam Vazquez 4:34
Yeah. Well, I really hadn’t thought of it that way. I don’t think but I think my behavior or my actions in the way that I behave, I would say that I believe that like if you don’t have a big outcome, if you don’t have a huge splash, then in some ways, it does feel like at times, what are we doing here, but to your point and to Ben’s example, what we’re doing here is building a long term company Owning success product of machine that extends your brand in lots of ways. That’s a great point. I also enjoy just hearing the depth of his process. We had a Rachel canner last week, and we talked about the importance of really thinking deeply about what you’re creating, which I think it’s something that can be a little bit of a lost art with the lower barrier to entry for digital content. And what Ben, the process he describes, and I don’t want to give it all, but he’s, like, so painful and so time-consuming. And it shows that’s why his product ends up being so good at the end of it.

Carlton Riffel 5:36
Yeah, that’s a great point. And I think, too, we obviously were interested in the interview as well, because of his connection with my first million. And just he talks a little bit about his experience working with them. So I think, I guess from a 10,000-foot view, looking at content as a way to connect with people, they may not be like celebrities in a certain area, but just connect with people in general, is one of the most amazing parts of content creation that a lot of people don’t, don’t realize is is there for the taking.

Adam Vazquez 6:12
Yeah, I’ve been working on this take, and I’ve used it in several of my interviews recently. It’s something to the effect, it’s not fully baked, but it’s something to the effect of, if you’re just doing advertisements, or if that’s how you’re going about monetizing your show, then you’re lazy and good for nothing. So I need to like craft the words around it, but it’s something around that. So we’ll see where that goes.

All right, today’s five-star review, we have a pretty short one, but wanted to keep this going. It’s from Kage-fighter. That is the name of the reviewer. It is a five-star review. The subject is “Great content” and Kage-fighter says “Love the content and selection of guests. Thank you Content Is for Closers for making this show.” Very nice, very kind, very short. Appreciate it Kage-fighter. You too, can leave your five-star review. We always appreciate it. But with that Carlton, anything else before we get to the interview with Ben Wilson?

Carlton Riffel 7:11
I think that’s good.

Adam Vazquez 7:13
Let’s get into it.

All right, we’re back with another episode, we’ve got Ben Wilson of How to Take Over the World. Ben, thank you so much for joining us here.

Ben Wilson 7:30
Glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

Adam Vazquez 7:32
My first question is—I didn’t send this to you in the pre notes because I didn’t want to prepare you for it—and that question is, should we be worried about you? I feel like a lot of times, there are these monarchs, these people who come to power and we’re like, “Man, there were all these signs. They were telling us who they were for years prior and we just didn’t pay attention.” It feels like the dude who has a podcast about how to take over the world could be a red flag. Should we be worried?

Ben Wilson 7:59
Yeah, absolutely. The answer is absolutely. You never know with me. I could go off at any time. Yeah, just want you to know that I could do it. I could take over the world. It’s only my benevolence that holds me back.

Adam Vazquez 8:12
Well, thank you. It’s very kind of you not to not do that. But obviously, you are the creator and host of the podcast, How to Take Over the World. Huge fan here. And I’m curious kind of take us back to the beginning. You’ve been doing it for a couple years now. I think how did that how did that come to be?

Ben Wilson 8:29
Yeah. So initially, it was just I love biographies. And I would get this feeling when I was reading a new biography of just so and so excited, especially if it’s one of these people who I’d find really inspirational. So I started thinking, I wish I could index these notes a little bit better. I wish I could retain and remember the things that I’m learning from these biographies a little bit better. And so then I started thinking, Well, what if I created something from this? What if I turned it into a book or some blog posts or a podcast and I had an old microphone sitting around? So I decided, okay, I’ll turn it into a podcast to help me retain some of my notes a little bit better. And it’s all history from there, as they say.

Adam Vazquez 9:11
Really? So it was just completely a— because you also do this, right? Maybe now at this point you do podcast production, but was that followed by your own creative discovery?

Ben Wilson 9:23
Yeah, so my journey into the world of content and media came from How to Take Over the World. So essentially, someone heard the podcast thought it was good said hey, do you want to come to production for us really impressed with your show? And so one thing turned into another and here I am.

Adam Vazquez 9:41
When you go back to how you were thinking about it, obviously biographies. There are a lot of ways you could have taken biographies. I think what’s unique about your show is it has this actionable, title and concept right off the bat where you’re listening for these insights that will inevitably help you as the listener succeed. You’re not probably going to try to take over the world, but you want to take over something industry, etc. Where did that concept come from?

Ben Wilson 10:11
I like to say that is a personal development podcast masquerading as a History podcast. And so that idea came from my own needs. That’s kind of what I was getting out of it. I don’t want to be disingenuous because I did do it for my own benefit, to retain and learn what I was already reading better, but there was somewhere in the back of my mind that when I came up with it, I realized, this is pretty good. Like, I do think this could be something Yeah, for sure. And so I didn’t know from the beginning, that I wanted it to be something I like. There was definitely a part of me that wanted people to listen to it and wanted it to be big. And I had some inkling that maybe I could make some money from it someday and that’s worked out.

Adam Vazquez 10:53
Listen, ambition is a tenant of any great conqueror, I feel like. You’re just following the book. You mentioned that you were trying to find a way to index the show or index your notes. Just out of curiosity, do you use any system? Like, I know there are a lot of people who use Tiago Forte’s second brain. Is there something like that, or just kind of your own system you’ve invented?

Ben Wilson 11:16
Yeah, so I use Notion. Nothing too sophisticated. What I have started doing is, instead of writing my notes, I actually just— so it’s a whole system. I basically read with my Airpods in and I hit record on my phone for a voice note, and then as I’m reading, I just say out loud my takeaways. If there are any quotes that I love, I say those quotes. I enunciate them very clearly. So that turns into like, whatever, a 10-hour audio clip. I then insert it into some software called Descript and I can automatically trim the silences, so it takes out all the silences. So then a 10-hour audio clip turns into a, frankly, like a 20, 30-minute audio clip. I do it that way because I go so much faster. Now I don’t have to interrupt myself to highlight and to write and to take notes when I’m reading. So it speeds things up a lot for me. And then I upload those notes and I just keep them by— not actually by biography but by a person because I will read multiple biographies per person.

Adam Vazquez 11:21
Wow, that’s awesome. So I assume then audiobooks are not a huge part of your research that way.

Ben Wilson 12:32
They are actually but it’s always supplementary. So yeah, that’s a good point. Sometimes I’ll jot notes when I’m listening to audiobooks. But usually what’s happening is I’m doing my primary research on someone this is kind of idiosyncratic, I guess. And then I will actually be listening to an audiobook on someone else who have already done the reading for I wouldn’t actually, obviously not at the same time, right, but Right, like right now I’m reading books about Brigham Young. But when I get in the car, I’ll start listening to an audio book about Vladimir Putin because I’ve already done some research and an updated episode about him.

Adam Vazquez 13:07
So you have the context in your head already.

Ben Wilson 13:10
Yeah, it’s a little weird to be like— it’s a little weird anyway, but yeah.

Adam Vazquez 13:16
No, that’s a great system. Also, I’m really excited about this because our creative director Carlton is a huge fan of you and your show and he and I fight over Notion constantly. I’m very pro Notion. He hates Notion, so I can’t wait to clip this.

Ben Wilson 13:30
What does he hate about Notion?

Adam Vazquez 13:32
I think he is— Well, I’m saying this for me. He’s like too smart for Notion. I’m sure you use it in a very advanced way, but he has so many ways that he thinks about things and wants to be able to write his own automations and so there’s other tools that he likes to like really customize and I just like to like write words like a dummy.

Ben Wilson 13:56
I’m like you. I talked to someone the other day who was walking me through their notion instance and was like, yeah, all this programming and to me Notion seems very robust. I’m a dummy like you, I guess.

Adam Vazquez 14:10
Hey, real quick, no ad this week but I did wanna let you know that all of our episodes are available over on our Youtube. If you’re like me, I sometimes like to see the faces of the people talking as they laugh or tell stories and we wanted to make sure we made that available to you. Plus, our team takes the best little pieces of advice that our guests give and publishes them as shorts as well, so check it out. Search Content Is for Closers on Youtube and we’ll link it in the show notes below as well. Let’s get back to the interview.

Okay, so that’s kind of your capture process. Take us through then, I know you script your episodes, right? You manuscript them. So what does that look like? That sounds very time-consuming. But what does that process look like?

Ben Wilson 14:51
Yep. So I take all those raw notes and then I kind of start copying and pasting over the points I do think I want to make and then I just try to rush through a bad first draft, and then edit, edit, edit, do a lot of editing, and I, I very fine tune the script it, I script every single word until it’s perfect. And then I completely ignore the script when I read it, really and not completely right. But there’s I do a lot of improvisation and a lot of changing sentences on the fly. And I ignore a lot of my script. Since I do that, I tried just doing bullet points and doing refer scripts. But something about that process of dialing in every single word just helps me know the material really, really well and helps me feel comfortable, frankly, helps me feel like okay, I can go off on these tangents. Because if I kind of get lost, and I don’t know what I’m saying anymore, I have something to come back to and a sentence to read, and I feel safe and comfortable. So it’s kind of a weird thing. But I have to do it that way I found.

Adam Vazquez 15:58
No, it makes total. So you and I, I felt this like— I don’t know the right word. Vibe is not the right word. I feel like we have this somewhat of a connection because you are a grew up in the Mormon church and I grew up Evangelical, and basketball is a huge passion, so we’ve got that, but with the church thing— So I thought I was gonna be a pastor for a long time took all these classes on preaching. And they would have you do the same thing, right? Like manuscript out your sermon, down to the word. And then when you’re delivering it, though, you’re supposed to deliver it as if it’s off the cuff. And I always struggled with that, because I’m actually better off the cuff. But I struggled to delineate between the two. But I can see how if you’ve manuscript it, if you have all those references if you have all those like all that detail, then when you get lost, because you are trying to tell a joke or whatever, then you have something to come back to that’s solid and concrete and has all the facts in it. Is that kind of like a similar parallel to what you’re doing?

Ben Wilson 16:57
Yeah, that’s interesting because The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we don’t have professional clergy, so it’s just members of the congregation who give talks. So I also grew up giving, giving talks in church. Oh, there you go. That was kind of how I honed my public speaking ability. So there’s a lot of similarities there. So yes, I do think you’re exactly on with why it is I do it that way.

Adam Vazquez 17:18
I do think, just to finish that note there, Sam at one point said that you, he, and Shawn could take any three-on-three grouping. I believe.

Ben Wilson 17:30
So not in the world, obviously, but we just feel like we’re pretty strong in the text Twitter space.

Adam Vazquez 17:37
No, I get it. That made its rounds in our Slack. I think we’ve been getting ready for this unseen probably that will never happened tournament that we’re all excited about.

Ben Wilson 17:50
Where are you based out of?

Adam Vazquez 17:51
I’m based in South Carolina. Our team is kind of all over the southeast.

Ben Wilson 17:55
Wow. Yeah, that would be tough.

Adam Vazquez 17:57
It’s a long trek. But anyway, that’s great. So you go through the manuscript process, you do your initial recording, and then I assume that’s not what you ended up publishing, but maybe it is.

Ben Wilson 18:10
That’s right. So again, I use Descript for editing the audio, which just speeds up the process a lot. Can’t say enough good things about that software. These days It’s not actually me who does the editing, I have someone to do that for me. Like, although it was for a long, long time. But at that point, as I’m recording, I’m making decisions about what I want to keep and what I don’t and things will feel good or not, as I’m saying them. So by the time we get down to editing, it’s really just removing any flubs or anything like that. And, and then I guess the last piece is anything that I end up not putting in, I save for my end notes episode, which I’ve started to do a lot more of now, as a way to kind of capture all the random notes that didn’t make it into the main narrative.

Adam Vazquez 18:56
Yeah, very cool. So where do you see this going? With the amount of writing that you’ve done and that you are practicing each episode, like, I could totally see you doing volumes of a book or like, is that ever on the horizon? Or has that crossed your mind at all?

Ben Wilson 19:15
I would like to do a book at some point. Yes. But what I don’t want the book to be as a money grab, that’s a regurgitation of my podcast. So I think I’ll launch into the book when I kind of have the time and something to say, Sure. I’ve got actually a few kinds of themes that I’ve touched on in the book that I’d love to dive deeper on. So I’ve got some ideas. I do think I’ll do that at some point.

Luckily, as I’ve gotten more involved with My First Million, gotten to know Sam and Shawn, they have connected me with and helped me find opportunities to make money, and so I don’t need to make money from How to Take Over the World. I’m making some money from it. I’ve just kind of enjoying it right now. And I’m enjoying, I keep telling myself, Oh, I’m going to keep putting out episodes every week. And I’m really going to put my nose to the grindstone. And then it turns into something that I don’t love. And it turns into something I have to do. And then I back off a little bit. So I’m no I’m always pulled in between those, those two ideas. I’ll probably start doing the content a little more often. But right now I’m mostly enjoying it.

Adam Vazquez 20:28
Yeah, well comes out in the work because it’s enjoyable to listen to for that reason, probably. And I think it has similar The reason I thought of a book is obviously the almanac. Got a lot of excitement and press and you’re doing something different. But the curation of ideas is similar, right? As to something like that. And so I was just, I was just curious on that.

But yeah, you’ve obviously had a lot of success with it. Obviously, we’re working with you guys from My First Million now. But what is the best or maybe the coolest outcome for you that you’ve experienced through the process of creating a show like this?

Ben Wilson 21:06
Well, there have been a few. It’s really changed my life. I mean, it has completely changed my life. So when I started it, I was a part of a startup that was in the process of failing, the process of coming apart. I had just moved into my parents’ basement to save money, I had just broken up with my girlfriend because that relationship had not gone well. I don’t want to like give people the wrong impression. I wasn’t a loser. I had some things going through my life but, at the same time, I was at a low point in my life, I think that’s one of the reasons I was maybe looking for a little more inspiration. And I really didn’t know where I was gonna go and what I was going to do next. And since then, so start the podcast, it’s time to find a new job, I was probably going to go do what I had done. Previously, my career which is, which was management consulting, and in a little bit of, of brand management. And on a lark, I sent my podcasts to a few production companies and said, Hey, do you like this? Would you be interested in letting me produce for you? And when company got back to me and said, Yeah, we really like it. You want to come be a producer. And I was gonna make half of what I had been making last time. I had a real job. Yeah, for startups. But that was okay. I was interested. I really liked doing the podcast, and I thought, Okay, let’s see if I can make a career out of this. I go, I do that. About a year later, me and one of the senior management from that company leaves start our own studio, that studio does well. And then probably one of the biggest moments, so many of your listeners, maybe not all will have heard of My First Million, but it’s a pretty big podcast in the business and entrepreneurship space. I was a huge fan. And those guys that hosted their names were Sam and Sean. And to me, they’re, they’re like celebrity, I think of them as celebrities. And I am sitting there one day I was intervening years, I had gotten married, had a kid. It was over the summer, and we live in Virginia. But we were staying with my in-laws in Utah. And I was up before everyone else. And I’m sitting at the kitchen table, and listening to My First Million in the morning and doing a little email. And I’m listening. And Sam says, “I have to tell you about this podcast I’ve been listening to. It’s incredible. It’s called How to Take Over the World.” And I think, There’s another podcast on how to take over the world. What are the chances? And he starts going on. “It’s by this guy, Ben Wilson.” And I kind of freeze. It’s like watching a TV show and all of a sudden the TV show looks up at the screen and is like, Hey, you. I’m talking to you. I’m like, Oh, wait, what’s happening here? So they were big fans of the show and then I’ve had a chance now to go and start producing for them and be involved in that world. And so I don’t know what the biggest difference or biggest outcome is. Like, I make more money, I do what I love, I’m happier on a day-to-day basis. It feels good to be acknowledged and for people to know who I am. My life is better in almost every single way, so it’s kind of hard to know where to start.

Adam Vazquez 24:14
It’s awesome that you didn’t start from a place of— you started out of your own creative curiosity and all these things have come out from that. I do think it’s funny. My buddy Sonny Byrd, we actually shared office space for a while and while we were sharing office space, he had a similar experience. So like Sam and Shawn talked about his business. He has a business rock returns where if you have an e-comm company, you can have your return sent to him, he packs it, and ships it back out. And Shawn was like, “Yeah, my buddy has this rock returns company,” and Sonny and I were like, “Dude, you’re the buddy!” It is a funny moment when that happens to someone, I think.

But so what is the impact of being with those guys and being on the show? Maybe it’s just like the way you think? Or you said, like connections? Or how has that impacted the direct trajectory of the show or of your career, really either or?

Ben Wilson 25:17
Yeah, so first it 10x, my downloads, so that was nice. That was a huge boost. And then, well, I’ll just start listing things, but one is access to capital. So the great thing about producing for a show like that is you have these very wealthy people who come on, and they get to know me, as long as the episode goes, well, they like me, they trust me, they learned that I’m competent. And not only that, but I’m like in a little bit in a position of authority getting them set up. And so that has freed up some capital, which has been really nice. So those people just need me and an offering to fund things for me. Yeah, the and other connection, advertisers have found me through My First Million reach out to me. And so there have been money-making opportunities that have come through that. The other thing that I think the biggest thing, though, is just being around those guys, and their confidence that things can actually be done if that makes sense. Like you were talking about a book just now. And I had wanted to do a book, I had wanted to do a course. And right now, Sam is letting me run his course. And I’m seeing how that business works. And I’m getting to get in the details and get involved with it. And it’s amazing how I feel way more confident that that’s something that I could actually do. And I know how it can be successful. And I know that it could be successful. So it’s almost just the confidence that comes from that from being around people who have done it. And who can show you exactly how to do things to be successful.

Adam Vazquez 26:47
Yeah, what a great training ground to be able to execute on. Those numbers, like you said, come pretty quickly. So if you’re just jumping in on your own, you might start with a few or a couple 100 or whatever. But getting to see that scale and then do it on your own is pretty cool.

Well, Ben, I just wanted to kind of get a chance to hear the behind-the-scenes get a chance to hear how you are building the show. I know a lot of people are obviously fans of mine personally, but I think there’s, I think there’s a lot of people who are specifically fans of How to Take Over the World, it’s a different show. It’s a show that you can take a walk to, and feel stimulated and like you’re learning something. And obviously, it’s a lot because of your back work. So we appreciate everything that you put into it. I would just be curious, before we let you go any specific trends or content ideas that you have, that you’re particularly excited about right now?

Ben Wilson 27:47
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So it’s interesting. I’d be interested to hear what you think because so much has been done at this point, like, media is so saturated and so much has been done and there’s no new platform now that’s coming out. There’s TikTok, but even TikTok. It used to be when a new platform would come out, it’d be weird and it’d be niche for a while and then it would get mainstream over time but there’s time for that arbitrage before everyone figured it out. And it just really feels like the time of that free arbitrage has been steadily decreasing. Right. So like TikTok was just not that along for that TikTok was not around for that long, right? Before everyone kind of figured it out. And I don’t know, and TikTok was not that big of a change from what had been there before. Yeah, and it just feels like the next thing is going to be even more just iterative and adapt adopted quicker. So, so that’s the first thing is like, I don’t know, it feels like everything is starting to get stale, if that makes sense. And so I think it’s gonna get harder and harder to stand out.

With that I think you have to you, the requirements are higher in order to stand out. So higher production quality, longer content, I think longer form is the way of the future like people clearly love Joe Rogan and Dan Carlin and these podcasts that are three to five hours long, like I think longer is going to get to be more and more normal. And yet the bar is just going to be raised in terms of right now it’s just me and a microphone and a guy talking and I’m looking at, alright, do I need to add some more production elements? Do I need to add some background music and some sound effects and things like that? And maybe that’s going to become necessary as it becomes more and more difficult to get heard.

Adam Vazquez 29:53
Can you imagine, with the amount of work that it takes you to do what you do now, with some and obviously they’re completely different stylistically but what some of these people do creating three to five-hour episodes, I know it feels like they’re just talking, but they’re not. That takes a lot of work. I just can’t fathom creating that. That’s such a different bar.

Ben Wilson 30:17
Yeah, especially one person in a microphone. Dan Carlin does that. Four hours with just him talking. But the one that really blows my mind, I don’t know, if you’ve heard of the fall of civilizations podcast, we listened to that. Now, you should listen to it. Even if you don’t care about history. From production quality standpoint, it is extremely interesting, because of the production design. And now that’s a podcast that has a team of I think, probably a half dozen to a dozen professionals working on it. But I think that’s that standard of quality. Have you listened to business wars?

Adam Vazquez 30:51
Yep.

Ben Wilson 30:52
That’s on Wondery. That’s another one. That’s pretty good. Sound design and sound quality. And I think the good news is that there are tools that are coming out, that are making that easier to do and making that faster for people. So So you want to look out for those tools. I just saw a new AI tool, gosh, I can’t remember what it’s called. But what it does is it turns your podcast into YouTube, essentially. And what it does is it uses AI listens to your voice. And it finds open-source images that are related to what you’re saying. And it makes like a little slideshow so that you can just show those visuals for your podcasts and you upload it to YouTube. If you got a podcast like mine, where it’s not really I don’t, I don’t know that I just, I’m not interviewing anyone I write to show my face the whole time. And so I think you could see that type of thing for audio as well, where it’s like, oh, we will, with minimal human effort, scan your podcast and automatically insert some background music in order to help people up that production value for pretty cheap.

Adam Vazquez 31:56
Yeah, that’s super interesting. To your original point, I am interested to see, I think what you’re alluding to is it’s harder to get your name out there and trend following is sort of a race to the bottom, or at least I don’t want the word jump off. That’s what I believe. And so I do think though, we’ll see a consolidation of media brands, and then a return to maybe some older executions with that. So like, for instance, we’ve had on here before the guys from Flying Magazine. Obviously they’re an internet media company, they’re doing all these things that are digital media. But they also brought back a huge print magazine that they sent out every month. And it’s beautiful, and it’s super well written. And so I am interested to see how like some of these newer brands like to take My First Million, for example, leverages some of the things that have been like tried and true, whether it be analog or other, just kind of more historic media sources that I think that that that is interesting.

Ben Wilson 32:57
Yeah, I do, too. One of the things that I have thought about is, like, it’s so hard to come across empty, advertising, real estate, right. And one of the things that is kind of left open now with the decline of newspapers, is people’s front porch. And I do wonder, like, if you’re a media property, and you create just a really high-quality, old-school newspaper. There’s a reason the old business model didn’t work. So you don’t want to put in all that cost into reporting and paying journalists and all that. But if you can just essentially like, transcribe your podcast, get some high-quality visuals and, and advertise Yeah, and print it cheaper than the newspapers were doing. Like, that’s a place people have to look that’s not even challenged. So I think you’re right, that the people are gonna get creative with those type of things.

Adam Vazquez 34:02
Cool. Well, Ben, again, thank you so much for spending time with us, for sharing how you’ve come up with your show and all the things that you’ve continued to do over the last several years. If people want to check out your show, you, all the things that you’re doing, what’s the best place for them to follow along?

Ben Wilson 34:16
You just go subscribe to How to Take Over the World wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to follow me, and I keep people updated on new episodes and stuff like that, I’m on Twitter @BenWilsontweets.

Adam Vazquez 34:28
Awesome. All right, man. Appreciate it was a little catch-up soon.

Ben Wilson 34:31
All right. Thanks for having me.

Carlton Riffel 34:33
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