How to Reach the Top of Product Hunt

Adam Vazquez 0:06
On this episode we’re joined by Jeroen Corthout, who is the Co-Founder of SalesFlare. Jeroen and the team at Salesflare have been making CRMs human for the past eight years, and have left a trail of pretty incredible marketing achievements along the way. From earning the number one ranking on Product Hunt to leveraging AppSumo for thousands of new signups, the team at Salesflare has tried it all when it comes to product marketing and earning early users.

During our episode, Jeroen and I get into the details of how they got early adopters to use their product, how they scaled to the masses, and what they’re doing now that they’ve reached maturity as a CRM platform. This is a growth 101 playbook for anyone who is interested in or working on a product. Let’s get into it with Jeroen Courthout of Sales Flare.

Intro 0:55
Put that content down. Content. The close is over. What’s your name? Content. That’s my name. You know why, mister? Because you drove a Hyundai to get here tonight. I drove an $80,000 BMW. That’s my name. Content Is for Closers.

Adam Vazquez 1:16
Alright, we are back for another episode of Content Is for Closers. We have a great interview with Jeroen Corthout for you, but I need to be fully transparent with the people, Carlton. This is probably our fifth or sixth attempt at doing this intro because we’ve had so many problems today.

Carlton Riffel 1:34
I think it’s the sixth.

Adam Vazquez 1:35
Gracious. This has just been— My computer just died halfway through, microphones have not been working. Somebody doesn’t want us to have this content put out there, but we’re going to do it. And a lot of it is thanks to you, Carlton. People have been really impressed, I would say, with your tidbits last week you introduced the concept of putting ice cream is creamer which was mind blowing for me. Today. You troubleshot our computer, what else do you have for us? Do you have any other insights for us?

Carlton Riffel 2:05
I wish I had something better. I think, with it being Mother’s Day and everything this last week, it’s good just to take a breather this weekend and get outside, do some hiking. Have you ever been to that enterprise?

Adam Vazquez 2:18
Yes. Beautiful.

Carlton Riffel 2:21
Yeah, it’s really cool. And the craziest thing is they’ve got those like old ammo depot things.

Adam Vazquez 2:26
We’re talking about Chattanooga, Tennessee, enterprise South. I think Volkswagen built it.

Carlton Riffel 2:30
Volkswagen built it, yeah. They’ve got those crazy dome storage, ammo storage buildings that have been abandoned or whatever. And they built that on that site. Have you ever been inside one of those?

Adam Vazquez 2:42
No, I don’t even think I saw those.

Carlton Riffel 2:45
Yeah, that’s kind of like a staple at that park is every 200 yards they have these old, basically abandoned ammo depot domes underground. And so if you go on one of those, it’s just the craziest experience like they just opened up the door. Yeah, some of them are open, you can go inside of them. And they’re basically just concrete domes. And it’s just an incredible experience. I thought I would never be as entertained by an echo as I was yesterday. That was fantastic.

Adam Vazquez 3:17
You need to based on how things are going with like, at home setups for playing home field advantage, all those things, you need to just take your phone in there. And we’ll record in there. I bet it’d be the best episode we have.

Carlton Riffel 3:29
They won’t be able to understand the thing. It’s probably like six or seven echoes that you hear for every tiny little noise. It’s pretty incredible.

Adam Vazquez 3:39
Now I ran a couple of races out there when I lived in Chattanooga, but I don’t I really have no recollection of that at all. But that sounds cool. Did you guys hike or mountain bike? Or? Yeah, we just did some hiking over there. It was good. Nice need to get out there and do that. Speaking of cycling, our guest today your own quartiles when we were I didn’t get a chance to ask him too much about it. But he had a very nice road bike hanging behind him during our interview and he seems like a road cyclist based on our conversation. It seems like you could see him out there getting after a century ride or something like that. Just he has that. That sense about him. When you talk to him that kind of is quiet determination. What do you think about the conversation based on what you heard?

Carlton Riffel 4:21
It was great. I’m a product guy. I love new products. I think I’d probably fall into his target demographic of being an early adopter. If there’s something that people have that’s like in beta there, it’s way more likely I’m gonna try it just because I love experiencing new products and kind of kicking the tires and seeing what’s possible with new software. So, in his case, he had built a sales platform, kind of a CRM platform that became number one on Product Hunt, and that is not an easy task. Product Hunt is extremely hot. It has tons of new products being launched daily. And really, to some degree, the audience there is quite helpful. They give you a lot of feedback, there are a lot of things that people will kind of voluntarily explore for you on there. So it’s an interesting strategy for getting publicity, and also getting feedback from those early adopters in the audience. That’s a little bit more on the edge of, of new technology.

Adam Vazquez 5:22
Yeah. 100% When I was even having the conversation, I was like, man, Carlton is the guy, you’re, that you’re trying to talk to you because you talked about, obviously, product time. Also, what’s the other thing that you have app Sumo was a huge growth tool for them. And I think the lesson for me and what I, what I would like encourage people to listen for is, I think, as marketers, especially me, personally, I always think that there’s some magic key, or some like playbook or set of actions that I just don’t know about, but that like the people in the know, do know about, and everyone has like this, this kind of hidden secret or open secret. And what your room was telling us is he’s not from the product world. That’s what he does now. But that’s not his background, specifically. So he had to learn. Where is it that these people spend time? Where is it that the Carltons of the world what matters to them? And then he found ways to hack that and to and it’s like, sounds so obvious coming out of my mouth, but it isn’t. And it like Product Hunt, in hindsight is like, yeah, become one, number one on primetime, but it’s not that simple. become super successful, and app Sumo. Those are things decisions that he had to make. And he talks about how he went through that decision-making process, how they used, like an abundance of people coming through AppSumo or private time to connect on a one-to-one basis, which was super interesting to me. It’s like the reverse of what we do. And then how he leveraged all of that in order to grow the company. So that’s what I took away from it. I thought it was such a tactical, practical look into how to grow a software company. But I think that can be applied to almost anything.

Carlton Riffel 7:07
Yeah, I think the last thing I’d say on this is, a lot of times we think about content in terms of social media, or in terms of like publishing videos, and, and content can also take the form of engaging with communities or doing different I would almost call them press releases, or it’s almost like some of these platforms that have the opportunity to surface new, exciting things.

Adam Vazquez 7:34
Probably just community engagement, like just commenting really well that can be said to be content as well. Yeah, it’s something that we need to if you haven’t, and this is a shout-out for no free shout-outs for stuff. But the copy that course that Sam Parr put out, I would encourage anyone who’s interested to take that, like, do it, if you’re on the fence it, it forces you to think about the throwaway content that we sometimes don’t think because it’s not an advertisement. It’s not a commercial. But it’s a Those are important things. Speaking of some throwaway content, this is actually the opposite of that. But every week we read one of our five-star reviews, we’re on our way to 100. If you leave a review right now, we will read it on the next episode. This is from Tennessee Titans. I assume the entire organization don’t know who this is. Five Star Review. Great show for my business. Adam and Carlton consistently produce quality episodes with the highest sourcing of quality guests. subscribe I promise you won’t regret it. Thank you Tennessee Titans. We are all big Tight, tight on this show, we appreciate you leaving that and for you who are listening. You’re gonna want to leave a five-star review after year this was your rune it was extremely informative. He’s a completely different character. And he brings a lot of new insight I think to what we’ve talked about here on the show anything before we get to it, Carlton?

Carlton Riffel 9:02
That’s good. Let’s go.

Adam Vazquez 9:14
All right, welcome back into Content Is for Closers. On this episode, we have the founder of SalesFlare, Jeroen Corthout. How’d I do on that, Jeroen? Is that okay?

Jeroen Corthout 9:24
That was perfect. Almost Cloudflare, but yeah.

Adam Vazquez 9:26
Yeah, I started to do that but we got it: SalesFlare.

Jeroen Corthout 9:29
It’s another flare.

Adam Vazquez 9:31
That’s right. Thank you for joining us. You said you’re coming from Belgium. Is that correct?

Jeroen Corthout 9:36
Yeah. I’m currently in Antwerp in Belgium.

Adam Vazquez 9:40
Very cool.

Jeroen Corthout 9:40
You know where that is?

Adam Vazquez 9:42
I looked it up prior to this if I’m being honest, but I have been to Aruba a couple of times. There are some ties there, right?

Jeroen Corthout 9:53
Luis does. Aruba… Actually, Aruba is a Dutch island— or it was or whatever. They still sort of speak Dutch there. At the time, the Netherlands and Luis were the same country so yeah, you could say there’s tie.

Adam Vazquez 10:11
Loose tie. Yeah, I’ve had a little bit of exposure to Dutch food and that’s the one time I did, so that’s the tie.

Jeroen Corthout 10:18
Okay. They have food? No, I don’t know. Yeah, Dutch food is horrible. Belgium, we have more of the French cuisine so when we go to the Netherlands, it’s like, what are they eating? A common thing we laugh about is they have this croquette and they have it in the wall. You can get it out of the wall. So imagine at one side of the wall, they open it, they put a croquette inside, they close it again, and then you come to the other side, and you put a coin, and then you get to your croquette out.

Adam Vazquez 10:51
Really? Interesting. You’ll have to show me when I make my voyage over there at some point. But croquettes aside, we’re here because of the work that you’ve done with SalesFlare. And I think recently you had a feature launch. But historically, one of the things you have done successfully is that I think our audience will be very interested in is being able to generate your own interest and hype, specifically around getting on the front page of Product Hunter, or the top of Product Hunter, something like that. Tell us a little bit about that. What were you able to do to achieve that success?

Jeroen Corthout 11:30
I think essentially, it’s not that complex. I think a first step, as always, is thinking who is on product hands, we’re already meeting there, it doesn’t even make sense for us to be in front of them because product tells essentially, if you want to think about it, it’s a lot of people are very excited about new products. Which means they are either well, they are very early adopters, or they have a startup themselves. And they’ve sort of been on Product Hunt themselves. And that’s how they have a connection with it. Apple is very often order in marketing in a company. So when they really love new things, or their product people, like product designers are generally designers. So think about that audience and I think, is my product actually right for them. If it’s not, then probably should be a product turns. For multiple reasons. Your product will not do well. You will not get up close, because it’ll be like Fleur, I don’t need this. And secondly, even if your product, quote unquote, does well won’t happen to you won’t get any proper leads from it. So it’s a waste. So first thing is my product, right for product class and then think, how is it right for a product? Like if I were one of these people, and I would see our product, beer, what trigger mate. And you don’t have a lot of time. So product and essentially it’s a list of stuff. And the nicest things move to the top because they get upvotes. Part of that is, is organic, and part of it is not because it’s a competition also so. But the you need to grab that attention based on a little image, a title and a subtitle. And that’s all you have. It’s like you’re sending an email to people. You don’t have much. You’re there. Also you have the subject line the app, you have your own name. And you have a little preview text. So if you cannot grab people’s attention with that, then you’ve lost already. Because if you cannot pull them into your listing, which is very likely, and they probably won’t upload either they cannot pull it without seeing it. But who does that? So it’s very important to focus on these things back in the day, when we launched many things on Product Center already, back in the day, making an animated little image was very important. Because then you would attract more that should nowadays it only animates when you hover over the listing. So the importance of that has been reduced significantly. But that’s at least it’s something nice to work on. So you see something that appeals it’s tells a story perhaps and when you’re over it moves. It’s it has an extra thing to it. But then the most important things are the title. And as a subtitle, you can put emojis in your title. In many cases they will remove them and you can always put the back because basically what happens when you also product turns, the hunter has edit rights, or the makers have edit rights, but also product and it’s all of us edit rights. So you can make this a little editing fight. You add something, they remove it, you add it again, they don’t see it again, you’re fine.

Adam Vazquez 15:18
Yeah. You mentioned there the competitive part. I’m curious, what were you referring to that? Is that just the manual process of rallying people around your product? I’m just curious what that was.

Jeroen Corthout 15:23
The idea behind Product Hunt is great, the best things come to the top. And it happens with uploading, and of course, they make an algorithm that makes sure that it’s as clean as possible that the upvotes are preferably real opcodes. But it’s, there’s, there’s no way to be 100% sure of that. And if ProductHunt is a good way to get a lot of attention, then obviously, everyone will try to trick it. Literally everyone, and people who don’t try to trick it, they will not even end up on the front page. And if you don’t end up on the front page, nobody will see you, nobody sees you also not get organic upvotes. So, to a certain extent, you need to provide the first Bush for a big part of that push. So product turns starts with having a community already. Okay, that is support you within the product and community. Now, the the the little problem there is, is that, at least as far as I know, and they’re not, like super open about it, but if you ask people that are not in production, yet, to create a product on the continent upward, my belief is that it hurts you rather than it helps you really. So I am not 100% sure about that. Obviously, the algorithm was blackbox and all that, yeah. But you need to make sure, I think that people already have an account or who has an account and that you can ask these people, then there are many ways, many things you can do if you already have a nice customer base, and people are in Product Hunt. And you can rely on them, you can send them an email. More effective is obviously asking people on the on chatter. So ask them on Facebook Messenger or WhatsApp or LinkedIn or a can your photos. A nice trick is to ask also, can you ask your team to up photos? Because that immediately multiplies the level of bigger team by my ex? And that is it, essentially, the listing itself helps up nice graphics that explain themselves. Sure, a nice video, some comments once when we launched our email workflows. I even asked some customers to prepare some use cases, some stuff they did with our email workflows because our email workflows by themselves they don’t. I mean, it’s nice, but it doesn’t speak by itself, really. But if you see how other people use it, that it will really inspire you and create some enthusiasm. So a bunch of people did that put in the comments, and our people came to our page, you could feel the excitement. That was a nice touch that time I think.

Adam Vazquez 18:40
You mentioned having an existing community or an outstanding community. I know SalesFlare, you didn’t just launch it. It’s been around for many years. Take us back to that. We kind of dove into the recent stuff, but how did you all get started? How did the concept come to you as the founder and all that sort of thing?

Jeroen Corthout 19:00
Yeah. So we started in it eight years ago, I think. Eight years ago, we had the idea and I was making a little slight decK and my co-founders make a little prototype. Basically, the issue we faced, we had a software company, we already selling software product wasn’t a big sphere, business intelligence. And we had a lot of leads and we wanted to follow them up well, also the sales process quite low. So we had like 130 leads at the time, we went to a big conference and it was quite successful. And a lot of people said I’m interested in this I can you demo this outside the conference. So we had to follow up all these people, and it was really a pain. I had used Salesforce for many years before that. I knew it was a really a system to organize yourself practically more of the system that a big company enjoys to sort of build the roll processes and maybe have management boarding and all that, as a salesperson. It’s absolutely horrible system. So we tried many different systems, and we found some that were, were much better. I think some of the nicest ones we tried at the time were Pipedrive in streak, they still exist. But what we found every time is that we didn’t manage to use the systems properly. And why not? It was because they required so much data input from us, that we at some point gave up. We didn’t put everything. And if we didn’t put everything there, we couldn’t rely on the system anymore. If we couldn’t rely on the system anymore, it was less useful input less data. And you can see that vicious cycle. And we were so disappointed by that. But we also didn’t like disappointing people by not following up correctly and stuff. And we started thinking like, how can we automate this? How can we make sure that we always have the information and we don’t have to, the system does not have to rely on us for the information, but we can rely on the system. And we saw that actually, most of the information you’re tracking in a CRM is actually already somewhere. There’s a lot of stuff in your inbox. So the emails, but also the names of the people and their email addresses. Their phone numbers are under signatures, their addresses, maybe social profiles, positions, like what do they do at the company, all these kind of things you can gather, you can gather information about the companies as well. There are a lot of company databases out there and stuff on LinkedIn. Also about people, there are just things on social media could pull all that together, and you sort of already have a database. But then a very important thing when you’re managing customer relationships is also the whole timeline. The emails from the inbox, it’s the meetings from the calendar, it’s the calls from the phone, it’s the email tracking, whether they open stuff, click on things go to the site, if the system can map all these things, you immediately have this overview of of the full customer relationship, you could say because a customer relationship is defined by touch points. So we set out to build that system. That took us a while I think we started developing our first we are sort of, again, so intimidated by the project. So we started something smaller first was a document tracking tool, which does not exist anymore. But then at the end of 2014, we started developing and we only after a year, we got it to such a point that somebody wanted to pay us for it. Wow. That was in 2015. And then we’ve been building up things gradually, we’ve been doing real sales, really finding people who were interested, demoing them, setting them up on the software supporting everything fully guided. That was a long process. And it took us a lot of time. But it also really helped us to find out all the little things about why people use sales fair with other stuff, they wonder what was going wrong in the process, how we could make it better. And actually is that enabled us that in the end, back to product that you could say, to in 2017? When we launched the product, and in I think it was March or April? By then we had all these things figured out? Sort of I mean, we still come a long way since then. But it really helped us to have an experience that was fluid and smooth.

Adam Vazquez 23:55
So two—one question, really—I love it how you all scratch your own itch and build something that you needed. You said it took you a long time to build the product and to have these sort of slow conversations and then it flipped and you started getting traction selling. What was the flip there? What was the thing that made that start happening? As opposed to the slow plodding process you were experiencing prior?

Jeroen Corthout 24:25
There was no real flip. Well, actually, Product Hunt was sort of a flip for us in a sense that I think at the time we had probably we convinced about 2030 customers or so if even by the time we launched product turns. When we got on there I think 300 companies or so tried our software in a few days, which was huge at the time. Product Hunt, I must say, was more grassroots and more active, like, now it’s bigger, but it’s a little less active, okay. And then based on that also the people at AppSumo got the confidence you promote a CRM, they were all against it. They serve all CRMs. We don’t do that anymore. But when they saw a successful product, and they said, Okay, let’s give this a shot. And it was a great success there as well. We actually onboard it. Almost 6000 companies in a matter of three weeks on our software. Yeah, you can imagine. So we come from, I think when we were last on AppSumo, we probably had 40 customers or so at 6000 companies. In a matter of two weeks. That was crazy. I can’t imagine, in many ways, we were like doing support 24, not 24 724, five. Throughout the night, we had shifts at all. We had offered to help people with their imports, that was a bad idea. Because all of a sudden, we had this huge pile of imports with our servers, were not meant to that they didn’t auto-scale yet. We had to fix that. While things were going down. Wow. And we also still relied on the external service to connect to mailboxes, which not the case at all anymore. Everything is fully native. But we had told that external service that we were going to have a lot of traffic in this. Well, that’s okay. Prepare, we have a lot of stuff going on. But when we actually got all these up Sumos on our software, everything went down. It was horrible. We spent days fixing it.

Adam Vazquez 26:49
But the nice thing was—I don’t know if this is the way it works with yours—with AppSumo, the experience I have with them, a lot of times those are like lifetime deals or long-term deals. So those 6,000 customers or whatever, I’m sure there was a lot of pain there getting through it but, once you scaled up to that, you had that recurring revenue coming for however long?

Jeroen Corthout 27:17
Yeah, normally, like you said, the revenue from AppSumo is not really recurring because they’re lifetime deals. Now we organized the lifetime deal in such a way that it’s was one use of free CRM and additional ones at a big discount. Which means that we did add recurring revenue, and we still have recurring revenue from people who join us AppSumo. Now, that’s not the only benefit to it. Of course, it helps you to see what it is to scale your product. It’s nice, but also AppSumo promotes you to a million people, which is nice. These people that then decide to buy your deal, somehow feel super connected to you, because they bought your software. They almost feel like they bought your company. And they are ready to promote you. They’re ready to promote you to other people. They’re ready to write reviews. Some of them are ready to be your affiliate even. So that helps you in many ways. And then on top of that, you also get so much feedback. Because the funny thing is many people who pay us don’t give us a lot of feedback. I think they have more money than time. You could say, well, people are joining us from App sumo maybe have more time than money. I mean, it’s not a general thing. But I another. I’m generalizing, but we get a lot of feedback from them, which also helped us tremendously to improve our product.

Adam Vazquez 29:01
That’s interesting. Do you think that’s just a byproduct of the longevity of when they buy a lifetime deal they feel like a part of the company? Or why do you think that has an effect?

Jeroen Corthout 29:14
Other type of people, also. Maybe they’re starting up, they’re relatively optimistic about a lot of things, they’re really trying to build something. They maybe are not. Not all of them are at the speed yet with their business. A bunch of factors that play into that. Well, while many of our customers are really like, they’re going for it that they may be just an employee at a company doing sales. They don’t care as much. Yeah, makes sense. It’s weird, right? Because they’re paying us.

Adam Vazquez 29:14
No, I think it makes sense and the time and money discrepancy is probably accurate. If you are just starting, you’re excited about things, you’re enthusiastic and potentially could make money as an affiliate versus just being a big box customer that that’s using it purely for utility. That makes sense.

Hey, I want to tell you a quick story about my friend John. That’s really his name, by the way. I’m not making that up. Anyway, John is someone I look up to immensely and go to when I need advice. And the reason I do that is because John has sent me books and articles that have completely changed the way I view my business and finances. The thing is, John didn’t actually work in my business, he never looked at my bank account or sat with me to invest in and he didn’t have to just exposing me to the kinds of things that changed, my thinking was enough. And I’m forever grateful as because we as humans, give credit to the people who show us new ideas. It’s like getting brownie points without having to do anything aside from sharing. So if you found this show to be valuable, or I’ve ever learned something from the show, please, right now, go open a text and share this episode with someone. They’ll thank you, I’ll thank you, and you will feel great for having helped someone without it costing you a thing. Okay, that’s it back to the show.

So we’ve kind of skirted a lot around it, but tell us what—and you described it when you were describing your own needs state—what is SalesFlare? How would you see it used effectively? Or why is it a helpful tool for sales and marketing people?

Jeroen Corthout 31:20
Imagine you’re a small or medium-sized business that does B2B, so it’s also other businesses, then you can use sales where and what we use it for, is to better follow up your leads, essentially, if you ask most of our customers, what is the most essential thing you do at SalesFlare? It’s following up leads in a better way. It can be prospects, but it could also be customers who want to buy again, I mean, all these things, account management is also possible. But in most cases, it’s there’s a lot of business development going on. And our software helps with that I sort of alluded to earlier, you don’t have to input everything in the CRM, we built it in such a way that it starts from everything that’s already there. And then sort of services, all that information to you. And you just have to click, so you can create a company tells you this, these are the Bitnami this is more information about the company, it’s already there for you. And it says these are the people you know there, do you want to add them, we already have all the information about them. This is who your colleagues know at the company, you can get introduced to these people, these are the relationships you have with them. This is all the things all the emails, meetings, calls, all this things that were changed. These are all the files who exchanged with these people, this is their social feed, everything is sort of there for you. And then based on that you can do better sales. And then because we have so much data we’ve been building in some smart stuff that it’s going to remind you when you forget to follow up with someone when you forget to answer an email at nodejs or so. But also, we’ve built this kind of automated email system. So you can send email sequences, like sent with some other tools. But you can also trigger them based on your data. So you could say, if a deal reaches this stage in the pipeline, they need to start getting that email, or they’ll reply or click or whatever. Or when they get that tag because of reasons or you could start building scalar stuff. And then we’ve expanded our software from there to covering more and more of the sales process. So we already cover a lot of things that used to be separate tools in the past like an email tracking tool, email template, tool, email sequences, Nemo finder, we also have now if you want to find email addresses of people. A LinkedIn integration. So if I go to your LinkedIn profile, it says this company, add the company, add Adam, find his email address, into that whole flow as well as a bunch of other things I’m forgetting.

Adam Vazquez 34:13
It’s a lot.

Jeroen Corthout 34:14
Reporting stuff, yeah, it’s a lot of product.

Adam Vazquez 34:20
Just a curiosity, let’s say that if it’s not on deal flow or stage of flow, can you do a custom tag? For instance, could the fact that you work at SalesFlare, and I know that you’ve worked there, can I send you a specific set of email sequences since I know you have that in your history? Can you tag people based on work history or things like that?

Jeroen Corthout 34:44
Yeah, you can use any of the data you have. So it doesn’t have to be the stage of the opportunity can be their role at the company if it contains that word, or it can be when you were less in touch with them or it could be The weather they have, you have a phone number for them or whatever. And then you can also use these different pieces of data, you can also use them in the email. So in the email, you can also use first name, if you email about a podcast and you put in a custom field, podcast name, your podcast name, engineer. You can build your own thing.

Adam Vazquez 35:20
That’s awesome. We’ll link obviously, all of that in the notes below. And I appreciate you spending so much time with us. I do have one last question before we wrap here and that we ask everyone, what is the one whether it be content trends, sales trend growth thing that you all are planning right now? What has you excited? And what are you looking forward to hear in the next several months?

Jeroen Corthout 35:43
Ah, good question. I’m mostly excited about, well, this personal excites me, is building a product that allows you to organize everything when it comes to sales in one place. I think the market is also generally going there, which is very helpful for people, because what’s most annoying is I have data in lots of different places. Like you, you send through email sequences here, and then some things bounce and then you try to employ that into your CRM to record that. But then you get this and that and then you need to find email addresses here. And then you’re always moving over CSV files. And it’s very hard to see what you already had here and there and then D duplicate that. We’re trying to build a system where that’s not necessary. I’ve told you many of the things we’re doing already, now we are building more and more towards the lead generation. So soon, soon, you’ll be able to say at this company, show me the sales director and then sales refined, wow. But then, slowly, we’ll also work towards get me agencies in New York that are that size, and get me the sales director, and then you’ll be able to manage that all from one place is to add these people to a sequence and then have an open days people are already in a CRM. So it probably doesn’t make sense to do that, or that’s what we’re working on. It’s really exciting. And it’s really difficult in a way for us. Sure our meetings are quite intense. Because we need to think through a lot of things to make that work very elegantly. But when it works, it’s so satisfying. That’s, that’s one of the things we really love as a team is to really think through the experiences very deeply. So that when you’re using the software in the unseeded alto feeling like what did they do here? Why is it like this? We tried to minimize.

Adam Vazquez 37:49
Yeah, it sounds like you’re thinking through all of that. I obviously sell for our company and all of those things are features that would be incredibly helpful. The email finding thing alone is like a killer feature so we’ll definitely be keeping tabs and looking forward to seeing all the things that you all build. I appreciate you so much coming on your own. And we’ll hopefully catch up with you soon.

Jeroen Corthout 38:14
Yeah, thank you as well.

Carlton Riffel 38:16
And that’s a wrap. Thank you for listening to this episode of Content Is for Closers. We hope you find this show really helpful as you grow your business with content. Maybe you know of other people who would find this show helpful as well. How about you send them our way? If you didn’t like this show and you want to tell us that, then you can head over to contentisforclosers.com where you can send us a message, give us some feedback, ask questions, or find detailed notes for every episode. Until next time, keep creating and keep closing.